The Italians before Italy: Conflict and Competition in the Mediterranean

European political history taken to the next level

Where does The Italians before Italy: Conflict and Competition in the Mediterranean rank among all the audiobooks you’ve listened to so far?

This is a higher level, more in depth study than most of The Great Courses on Audible. I suppose it ranks lower than others on the "entertaining" scale, but higher on the depth of information scale.

What other book might you compare The Italians before Italy: Conflict and Competition in the Mediterranean to and why?

Other related series by the great courses would include Foundations of Western Civilization I & II (both excellent), Europe and Western Civilization in the Modern Age, and The Middle Ages series: Early Middle Ages, High Middle Ages, Late Middle Ages

Have you listened to any of Professor Kenneth R. Bartlett’s other performances before? How does this one compare?

Professor Bartlett also teaches The Great Courses series on European Civilization and the Italian Renaissance, plus their video series The Great Tours: Experiencing Medieval Europe. He is extremely knowledgeable. The other courses are less focused on the political evolution of Italy and more focused on civilization, art, and historic sites. It all depends on what you're interested in.

Was this a book you wanted to listen to all in one sitting?

No. This is a long and detailed title with 24 lectures. I listened to about an hour a day over a couple of weeks.

Any additional comments?

This is a series for those who know European history and want to delve deeper re the politics of the Italian city states. Prof. Bartlett assumes that the listener knows European history, particularly of the middle ages. It is assumed you already know about the Byzantines, the Holy Roman Empire, the Turkish empire, the royal houses of Anjou, Habsburg, etc. With that as background, this series provides a survey of all the city states and their political (more than cultural) evolution, particularly vis a vis their relationships with Rome and the rest of Europe.

16 of 16 people found this review helpful

A useful survey, just what I wanted

Having forgotten much of what I learned about Italian history at university, I chose this course as a survey-refresher. It is an ambitious endeavor to attempt to teach this subject in only 24 lectures.

As you can see, any of the following lecture subjects provides more than enough material for a course of its own:

1. Italy, a geographical expression.

2. The question of sovereignity.

3. The crusades and Italian wealth.

4. Venice: a maritime republic.

5. Terraferma Empire.

6. Genoa: La Superba.

7. Bankers and dukes.

8. Pisa.

9. Christians vs. Turks in the Mediterranean.

10. Rome: papal authority.

11. Papal ambition.

12. Papal reform

13. Naples: a matter of wills.

14. Naples and the threat to Italian liberty.

15. Milan and the Visconti.

16. The Sforza dynasty.

17. Mantua and the Gonzaga.

18. Urbino and the Montefeltro.

19. Ferrara and the Este family.

20. Siena and the struggle for liberty.

21. Florence and the guild republic.

22. Florence and the Medici.

23. The Italian mosaic: E Pluribus Gloria.

24. Campanilismo: The Italian sense of place.

Each of us has favorites and subjects we'd like to have heard more about. (For me, it was Lombardia and the north in general). But this is a survey, and it provides what a survey should: a broad perspective. For me, it gave me a greater sense of how Italy became the nation it is, and what a wonder it is that unification ever took place!

For those who complain, "It's all names and stuff," I'm afraid that's what history classes tend to be. But your reading, research, and interest outside of class is what will really make the dry facts come to life.

(Audible, please make the downloads available through Safari. I wanted to use the pdf on iPad, but had to download on Microsoft, email it to myself, and convert it in iBooks).

Buon ascolto.

13 of 13 people found this review helpful

Great prep for a 2-week trip to Italy

History with context!

The professor has a superb job putting everything in context. Italy is such a complex place which such a diverse set of historical drivers, and so it's tough to do right.

Most tour guide histories are just a list of "then this happened, then this king did this."

In contrast, this professor ably articulates the trends and particulars, so that the names, places, and events make sense.

7 of 7 people found this review helpful

Could've Used More Culture + Color

There is a lot of detailed information here, but it is very dry: old-school history focused on political and military matters – to the exclusion of all else.

Professor Bartlett has a difficult task, as Italy between the fall of Rome and the Risorgimento was divided into many states, each with their own history and identity. He chooses to organize these lectures regionally more than chronologically. This has its drawbacks: many historical figures (like the Borgias) or international events (like the Plague) appear in the narrative of multiple states, and so we hear about them again and again, but only in little snippets each time – it can be disorienting.

This approach would make much more sense if he spent any time describing the states' individual cultures – he says over and over again that they were unique, but does little to illustrate what made them distinct beyond political organization. When he does mention something cultural, it's still dry: he might say that the Sienese developed their own painting style, but not say anything about what that style was or what made it special.

The lectures are also strangely limited in chronological scope: the (500+ year!) period between the fall of Rome and the first crusade is quickly glossed over (a single lecture!), and the lectures largely stop at the 16th century, long before Italian unification.

8 of 9 people found this review helpful

Great course with some redundancy

Would you consider the audio edition of The Italians before Italy: Conflict and Competition in the Mediterranean to be better than the print version?

No. With so much information contained in these lectures, one cannot properly gain enough knowledge without some written material. Simple things like, how the names are spelled and which dates related to what events/figures are just part of the reason why written text is necessary for learning history.

Would you recommend The Italians before Italy: Conflict and Competition in the Mediterranean to your friends? Why or why not?

Yes and no. See my comment below.

What does Professor Kenneth R. Bartlett bring to the story that you wouldn’t experience if you just read the book?

N/A.

Was this a book you wanted to listen to all in one sitting?

No.

Any additional comments?

After I listened to his “The Italian Renaissance”, I became a big fan of Professor Bartlett. History could be full of wars, names and dates tend to be pretty boring, but Bartlett has managed to keep audience interested by personalizing the historical figures, their background, character, journey in the way that you and I can related. He also provided various aspects of the Italian culture that we still can see today when we visit the country. In so doing, ancient history becomes highly relevant to today’s Italy and Italians.

One thing I am not entirely satisfied with this course is that there are a number of chapters seem to be directly copied from his “The Italian Renaissance”, or vise versa. The material is all great, but if you purchase one, the other doesn’t seem to add much value.

Another thing I am unhappy about it is the fact that the lack of course outlines in the Great Course series. With the huge amount of information delivered in these lectures, some written material will be most helpful for the students to review and solidify what’s learned. I will have to buy his written book as a suppliment.

8 of 11 people found this review helpful

Don't Bother

Would you recommend this book to a friend? Why or why not?

No.

What was most disappointing about The Great Courses’s story?

The professor is very long winded. He obviously cares about the topic but most of the material is opinions. He tells you how important and unique the story of Italy is but, if after five chapters, I've only learned ten minutes of material, I don't really care.

What three words best describe Professor Kenneth R. Bartlett’s voice?

Not bad. He sighs a lot and his pronunciation of words like peninsula- which he says every five minutes as peninchula-
and fragmentation are distracting.

Was The Italians before Italy: Conflict and Competition in the Mediterranean worth the listening time?

No. The material could have been summarized in a fraction of the time. Extremely repetitive and unnecessarily explanatory but using words like "of course" when presenting geographical and historical information a newcomwe to Italian history would not know.

Any additional comments?

This was so boring. I have listened to histories of China, Egypt, and Russia from the Great Courses and loved them. I drifted off multiple times listening to this. Also, his pronunciation and overuse of peninsula was irritating.

3 of 4 people found this review helpful

Incredibly Enlightening

Prof. Bartlett fully explains why Italy clutches onto its regional identities over its national identity, which is still emerging. I never considered how the Crusades brought wealth to these nation states, which brought about further experimentation with forms of democracy and ultimately fueled exploration of art and science and encouraged the production of luxury goods, though perhaps it is because I missed the over-arching significance of it in grade school history class. I have already listened to it twice to try and grasp this complex history. It is truly fascinating and worth delving into.

1 of 1 people found this review helpful

Narration Flawed; Subject Matter Difficult

Professor Bartlett sounds like he's enduring a rather wearisome exercise. His tone is monotonous and he heaves great sighs periodically. In general, he does not appear to be engaged with, or excited by, his subject matter. (By contrast, Professor Tuck, who narrates The Mysterious Etruscans, sounds like he is having a wonderful time sharing his knowledge).
Separately, the course material is difficult to absorb. The details of the struggles in each city state at times are both tedious and overwhelming. Perhaps, because so many mini-histories comprise the history of Italy prior to the Risorgimento, it had to be this way. However, I'd like to believe that someone else could have made different choices in selecting and organising the course material.

3 of 4 people found this review helpful

Thorough and engaging

I would recommend these lectures to anyone wanting to have a good grasp of Italian history. I like the approach of going through the various city states, as each has a unique style or flavor. The lectures are thorough without being too long. I particularly appreciated his synopsis at the end.

1 of 1 people found this review helpful

Only one gripe.

Excellent course. Only thing that kept annoying me was the way the professor pronounces peninsula. It would be something to ignore, but when talking about Italy it comes up a lot.