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Of Interest

Of Interest

By: Gareth Vaughan
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Longform interviews with key opinion makers about the New Zealand economyinterest.co.nz Economics Personal Finance Politics & Government
Episodes
  • David Mahon: China will watch Election 2026 closely

    David Mahon: China will watch Election 2026 closely
    Jun 12 2026

    Chinese officials are watching the 2026 election for a signal on whether New Zealand’s more United States-aligned security posture will become a permanent fixture.

    If they assess that it is, the trade relationship might be at risk. That’s the opinion of David Mahon, a Kiwi business consultant based in Beijing.

    “New Zealand–China relations are already at their worst stage since diplomatic recognition,” he told the Of Interest podcast.

    “At the moment, there's not some sword hanging over us, partly because China is so busy dealing with a massive geopolitical mess, as all great powers and smaller and medium sized powers are.”

    But Mahon sees two risks in the future: China could retaliate by blocking the import of some non-essential luxury goods, or it could simply become “indifferent” towards its relationship with New Zealand.

    “New Zealand sells a lot of things to China. None of them are irreplaceable. In the end, it's just milk. In the end, it's just fruit or honey. That's something that we need to acknowledge.”

    “If you look at our free trade agreement, the profit margin, the rationale for many of our companies trading with China is only based on the fact we pay no tax. If we lost that free trade agreement. We would lose much of our business with China”.

    Mahon doesn’t think the Free Trade Agreement is currently at risk but there are signs Kiwi businesses in China are nervous about the deteriorating relationship.

    An article written by China trade consultant Anna-May Isbey in a report published by the NZ Business Roundtable in China warned there could be direct consequences for geopolitical policies.

    “The language used by governments when navigating geopolitical tensions can have real commercial consequences. Exporters consistently express the view that New Zealand’s longstanding, pragmatic, and independent approach to international engagement should continue,” she wrote.

    This perspective contrasts against security analysts in Wellington and elsewhere who are increasingly concerned about China as a security risk, and want New Zealand to bolster its defence capabilities and diversify its export markets.

    Government agencies have linked China to both foreign interference and cyber espionage in New Zealand, such as hacking the Parliamentary Service network in 2021.

    But a political pivot towards the United States, which began while Jacinda Ardern was Prime Minister, has been complicated by the country’s plunging popularity in New Zealand.

    The United States is now seen by Kiwis as more of a threat than China, according to an annual survey commissioned by the Asia NZ Foundation.

    Mahon believes New Zealand should “learn to do less” and avoid taking sides in geopolitical competition which doesn’t directly affect it.

    “Stop seeking the approval of these big countries that impress you so much, including Beijing … If we do less, and our need for the approval of other nations is less, then I think the navigation is going to be a lot simpler,” he said.

    Audio soundtrack opening is licensed from Shutterstock, Track 1219389 Monetization ID TFGEPGEI0LHEIJAI
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    28 mins
  • The Detail interview with Gareth Vaughan

    The Detail interview with Gareth Vaughan
    May 30 2026
    IAn international collaboration and months of forensic investigation and fact-checking has helped a small Kiwi financial journalism website break a story involving a New Zealand company that moved massive amounts of money for multiple clients who were later convicted of financial crimes. Worldclear Limited - a banking clearing house based in Hamilton which is no longer operating - was able to set up and trade without breaking any rules, and it denies it knew anything about what its more colourful clients were up to. Those clients included a politically connected Belarusian oligarch, a UK citizen convicted as part of a large-scale European tax swindle, a Canadian-American guilty of wire fraud, and a Swedish national for whom there is still an international Red Notice out. The resulting story features this week on the front page of the website of the Organised Crime and Corruption Reporting Project, a global network of journalists rooting out stories of bribery, coercion and dirty deals in all corners of the globe. It was written by Gareth Vaughan, the editor of interest.co.nz, but he says he had a lot of help - from journalists from countries including Belarus, Lithuania, Sweden and Singapore. He has been following the Worldclear story for 10 years, but this investigation was really sparked in 2024 by a leak from a former employee who had been jailed in Singapore for financial crimes. "I sort of started looking at it and I just realised, there's a lot here," he says. "This is about events that happened a few years ago ... it's undoubtedly going to be interesting. I had no idea of the scale of it. I didn't realise the business had been anywhere near as big as it actually was in terms of the volumes ... we're talking tens of millions of dollars and various currencies, and customers literally from every corner of the world." Interest.co.nz applied for a Brian Gaynor Business Journalism Initiative grant and got more than $76,000 to hire temporary cover so that Vaughn could spend time pursuing the story. Worldclear's business model was to make international banking transactions for customers who were having difficulty doing that, either because banks turned them down or they were from jurisdictions that reputable banks wouldn't deal with. Under anti-money laundering rules it was classed as a remittance company. It targeted high risk clients facing banking or payment problems - the company says that is not evidence of knowing about or facilitating crimes, and there is no evidence that was the case. Using firms like Worldclear is a slow and expensive way to transfer money, but it makes transactions harder to track. It was not a bank so did not have to comply with Reserve Bank standards, and didn't break any rules under what are widely held to be 'light touch' financial regulations in New Zealand - regulations that have the World Bank classing the country as the easiest in the world to do business. "It's very attractive for business people, right, so anyone who wants to set up a company. [For] legitimate business, it's fantastic, it's great, and it's brilliant. "But it does mean that there may be people out there whose reasoning may not be completely wholesome - it's easy for them to do as well. "So Worldclear registered as a New Zealand company, and then it registered as a New Zealand Financial Service Provider. And registering as a Financial Service Provider doesn't mean that you're actually regulated - that's a separate issue. So there are some areas where you can register as a New Zealand Financial Service Provider and provide certain financial services internationally, and you're not actually regulated in New Zealand. "They didn't do anything wrong in the way they set the company up at all. They followed all the rules. And you can effectively operate as a bank internationally but you're obviously not licenced by the Reserve Bank. "By international standards this is quite light-touch." Two of the company's shareholders had financial criminal records, but Worldclear had no obligation to dig into their backgrounds. "You could set up in the same way today, as Worldclear did," says Vaughan. "There may be closer oversight of you today... also one of our experts we spoke to said he just didn't think banks would take on a company like this today." The Department of Internal Affairs, which had oversight of such financial companies, did two inspections and was quite biting about the company's methods in the second one - but no charges were ever laid. By the time that report came out, Worldclear had in 2019 left the Financial Service Provider's register. It is still a registered company but it has not filed an annual return since 2024 and the Companies Registrar has started the process of de-registering it. Inland Revenue has opposed the company's deregistration. Check out how to listen to and follow The Detail here. Audio soundtrack opening is licensed from Shutterstock, Track 1219389 Monetization ID ...
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    25 mins
  • David Cay Johnston: NZ's objective with Trump should be 'to not become the focus of his wrath'

    David Cay Johnston: NZ's objective with Trump should be 'to not become the focus of his wrath'
    Mar 12 2026

    Under the leadership of President Donald Trump there's a danger the United States will become an autocratic nation, not unlike China, Saudi Arabia or Russia, and New Zealand should strive to avoid becoming the focus of Trump's wrath, suggests David Cay Johnston.

    Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize winning investigative journalist, co-founder of DCReport and journalism professor at Rochester Institute of Technology, spoke to interest.co.nz in a new episode of the Of Interest podcast.

    Johnston first met Trump in Atlantic City in 1988, and has probed and written about the affairs of Trump for decades.

    Domestically he says Trump's under pressure from his MAGA (make America great again) base with the economy not doing well, and over the Epstein files and the US attack on Iran. With the US mid-term elections looming in November, Johnston says checks and balances via the likes of Congress, the courts and the Constitution supposed to limit the President's power, are failing.

    "The checks and balances system isn't working, plain and simple. He thinks he's the world's dictator. He hasn't
    consolidated his power even in the US, but that's his goal, totally consolidate his power, to be totally unaccountable, unfortunately," Johnston says.

    He says Trump's presidency could effectively be over if he loses control of the House and Senate in the mid-term elections, which is "weighing on his mind." Against this backdrop Johnston says voter intimidation and suppression is underway.

    Asked how the Trump era may end, Johnston says he fears for US democracy.

    "At the moment, the United States is a dictatorship. It is not fully consolidated, but it is a dictatorship. Whether we restore our democracy is not clear at this point. We may cease to be a democracy."

    Johnston says opposition emerged through the No Kings demonstrations, which he'll be watching closely over the coming US summer. These protests come against the backdrop of danger the US becomes "a huge autocratic nation, not unlike Xi's China, MBS's [Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud's] Saudi Arabia, [and] Putin's Russia.

    "And that would be a terrible thing for the whole world."

    For NZ, as a small, trading nation, Johnston suggests at this stage we ought to keep our heads down.

    "The key objective is to not become the focus of Donald's wrath because he could say, 'well, I'm going to prevent anyone from moving to New Zealand or coming from New Zealand. I'm going to ban Air New Zealand. He could do all sorts of things to make trouble. So my fundamental advice would be just try to stay off his radar, go on living your lives."

    In the podcast audio Johnston talks in more detail about why he believes Trump's tariffs are illegal, the US war with Iran, attack on Venezuela and other countries Trump could target, Trump and the Epstein files, the US economy, who Trump listens to and who influences him, the mid-term and primary elections and more.

    Johnston previously spoke to interest.co.nz about Trump in 2016 and in 2018.

    *You can find all previous episodes of the Of Interest podcast here.

    Audio soundtrack opening is licensed from Shutterstock, Track 1219389 Monetization ID TFGEPGEI0LHEIJAI
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    35 mins
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