The Lean Out podcast has covered lots of books in recent years. We have never covered a poetry book. But all it took was one read of a striking new collection of poems for us to know that we had to have its author on the show. The Canadian writer Stephen Marche said it best when he described this collection: “Like supremely eloquent graffiti written on the wall of a magnificent palace, except the palace is the world, and the world is on fire.”

Michael Lista is a Canadian essayist, investigative journalist, and poet. His new book is Barfly and Other Poems.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of this Substack will know, this spring Tara has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada. You can read it here.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. To mark the occasion, we are presenting a series of encore interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in November of 2023.

George Packer is a staff writer at The Atlantic, and the author of ten books.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of this Substack will know, this spring Tara has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada. You can read it here.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. To mark the occasion, we are presenting a series of encore interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in January of 2024.

Michael Powell is a staff writer at The Atlantic and a former reporter at The New York Times, where he covered free speech, college campuses, and identity politics. He’s also the author of Canyon Dreams: A Basketball Season on the Navajo Nation.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com