2020 was a turbulent year in American politics, and in the America media. The editor of The New York Times recently conceded that the paper went “too far” during that time and said that it is now working to pull itself back from such “excesses.” Our guest on the program today was at the paper during that period — and left to report critically on what she calls “the revolution,” both for her new media company and for her new book, which is out this week.

Nellie Bowles is an American journalist and co-founder of The Free Press. Her new book is Morning After the Revolution: Dispatches From the Wrong Side of History.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

The failure of our elites to manage society has been a topic since at least the financial crash of 2008. But it is very much on the minds of many Canadians these days, as we face a series of cascading crises, from housing and opioids to the cost of living and heath care. A decade ago, our guest on today’s program wrote a searing indictment against the system of elite education — and now, with the release of its 10th anniversary edition, his critique is more relevant than ever.

William Deresiewicz is an essayist and cultural critic, and the author of Excellent Sheep: The Miseducation of the American Elite and the Way to a Meaningful Life.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

Canadian politics have hit new low point. According to a recent poll, 70 percent of Canadians now believe that everything is broken in this country — and 59 percent said they are angry about how the country is being managed. Our guest on the program today has a new book about our Prime Minister, and the chaotic times we live in.

Paul Wells is a Canadian political journalist, a frequent commentator on radio and television, and a fellow Substacker. His latest book is Justin Trudeau on the Ropes: Governing in Troubled Times. (You can listen to our previous interview about his last book on the trucker cris, An Emergency in Ottawa, here.)

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

The Lean Out podcast has covered lots of books in recent years. We have never covered a poetry book. But all it took was one read of a striking new collection of poems for us to know that we had to have its author on the show. The Canadian writer Stephen Marche said it best when he described this collection: “Like supremely eloquent graffiti written on the wall of a magnificent palace, except the palace is the world, and the world is on fire.”

Michael Lista is a Canadian essayist, investigative journalist, and poet. His new book is Barfly and Other Poems.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of this Substack will know, this spring Tara has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada. You can read it here.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. To mark the occasion, we are presenting a series of encore interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in November of 2023.

George Packer is a staff writer at The Atlantic, and the author of ten books.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of this Substack will know, this spring Tara has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada. You can read it here.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. To mark the occasion, we are presenting a series of encore interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in January of 2024.

Michael Powell is a staff writer at The Atlantic and a former reporter at The New York Times, where he covered free speech, college campuses, and identity politics. He’s also the author of Canyon Dreams: A Basketball Season on the Navajo Nation.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of Tara's Substack will know, this spring she has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada, where it’s published.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. Leading up to its publication next week, we will be re-running podcast interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in December of 2022.

Freddie deBoer is an American journalist. His latest book is How Elites Ate the Social Justice Movement.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com

As regular readers of Tara's Substack will know, this spring she has been writing the Massey Essay on the state of the media — a partnership between Massey College at the University of Toronto and the Literary Review of Canada, where it’s published.

The annual essay honours the legacy of the long-time CBC producer Vincent Massey Tovell. This year’s essay explores the collapse of public trust in the media. Leading up to its publication next week, we will be re-running podcast interviews with some of the journalists that helped shape Tara's thinking for this essay. Including today’s conversation, which originally aired in July of 2023.

Peter Menzies is a former newspaper executive and a former vice chair of the CRTC, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission. He’s now a senior fellow at the Macdonald-Laurier Institute and a frequent commentator on the Canadian media.

You can find Tara Henley on Twitter at @TaraRHenley, and on Substack at tarahenley.substack.com