Recorded as a fireside chat at the ABA Law Practice Division Spring Meeting in San Diego, this special episode examines reports that Sullivan & Cromwell filed a brief containing nonexistent or inaccurate case citations and later apologized to opposing counsel and the court.

Steve Embry, Jennifer Ellis, and Michael Eisenberg discuss why AI hallucinations continue to appear in legal filings despite widespread awareness of the risks. They point to ignored firm policies, time pressure, overreliance on confident-sounding AI outputs, and a lack of understanding of generative AI's limitations as key contributing factors.

The discussion also explores how these failures relate to lawyers' ethical duties of competence, candor, and supervision. The speakers emphasize that legal citations should always be independently verified using traditional legal research tools—not AI—such as Shepardizing in Lexis or Westlaw. They also stress that proper training and experience are essential for recognizing unreliable AI-generated results.

00:00 – AI Hallucinations Hit BigLaw
00:37 – Show Intro and Disclaimer
01:16 – Sullivan & Cromwell Brief Fallout
02:19 – Why Lawyers Keep Getting Burned
04:19 – Competence Rules and Citation Checks
06:53 – Workflow Reality Check
08:55 – Training to Spot Hallucinations
10:45 – Verifying Citations Without AI Tools
12:55 – Closing Thoughts and Wrap-Up
13:02 – Podcast Outro and Resources

This Law Practice Podcast fireside chat with Alan Klevan, Jennifer Ellis, and Steve Embry discusses recent court responses to lawyers filing AI-hallucinated or fabricated citations, focusing on the Oregon appeals decision in Williams. The panel explains that the court emphasized Rule 3.3’s duty of candor to both the court and opposing counsel, criticizing the lawyer not only for including fabricated authorities but also for attempting a “quiet correction” without acknowledging the problem. They discuss growing judicial frustration, the likelihood of sanctions and disciplinary referrals, and examples of suspensions. The speakers stress that generative AI hallucinations are inherent, so lawyers must verify every citation by checking links and reading cases, use appropriate research tools, learn effective prompting techniques, and promptly disclose and remedy any errors rather than conceal them.

00:00 AI Hallucinations Intro
01:08 Fireside Chat Setup
02:42 Williams Case Breakdown
03:24 Candor Rule And Quiet Fix
05:21 Sanctions And Discipline
07:45 Protecting Public Trust
08:34 How To Prevent Hallucinations
10:14 Verification And Tooling Tips
11:57 Why AI Hallucinates
12:59 Wrap Up And Resources

In this Law Practice Podcast fireside chat on “Billing in the Age of AI,” host Jim Calloway is joined by Julie Bays, Director of the Management Assistance Program at the Oklahoma Bar Association, and Wendy Meadows, a family law attorney in Maryland and coaching consultant for small and solo law firms.

Together, they discuss how AI is changing the way lawyers think about billing, value, and client communication.

The conversation centers on the “efficiency paradox”: when AI helps lawyers complete certain tasks faster, how should that speed be reflected in the client’s bill? Wendy shares how her practice has shifted toward a hybrid billing model, using flat fees for document-based work like complaints and marital settlement agreements, while continuing to bill hourly for meetings, phone calls, and other client-facing work.

Julie emphasizes that invoices should do more than request payment — they should help clients understand the value of the work performed. Even when AI makes legal work more efficient, lawyers still bring years of judgment, experience, and legal strategy to the final product.

The panel also discusses the importance of clearly outlining billing structures in engagement agreements, continuing to track time even for flat-fee work, and setting limits when a matter exceeds the original scope. They also highlight the need for client disclosures around AI use, including warnings about placing attorney work product or confidential documents into public AI platforms.

Finally, the conversation explores how AI-driven efficiency may help lawyers expand their ability to take on pro bono and low-bono work. Rather than viewing AI only as a billing challenge, the speakers frame it as an opportunity to improve access to justice, increase capacity, and encourage lawyers to adopt AI thoughtfully — one small step at a time.

00:00 Welcome and Overview
00:33 Show Disclaimer
01:12 Billing in the Age of AI
01:15 Meet the Panelists
01:35 Invoices as Value Proof
02:11 Hybrid Billing in Practice
03:35 Engagement Terms and Time Caps
04:24 AI Disclosures and Confidentiality
05:23 Efficiency and Access to Justice
06:22 Closing Takeaways
07:05 Outro and Resources

On the Law Practice Today podcast, host Terrell speaks with Betania Allo, an Argentinian lawyer with graduate studies in international relations (Harvard) and an LLM (Syracuse) who is finishing a doctor of engineering in cybersecurity analytics at George Washington. Allo describes her work at the intersection of law, policy, international security, and emerging technologies, including roles at the UN in New York and in Saudi Arabia on the NEOM smart-city project leading cybersecurity culture and awareness for thousands of employees and contractors. Now head of TMT, AI governance, and privacy at Legaltracks in Riyadh, she discusses bridging regulators and innovators, the human factor in cybersecurity, differences in global regulatory priorities, and practical advice for lawyers seeking international opportunities through study, networking, and conferences.

00:00 Networking Opens Doors
00:21 Podcast Welcome Disclaimer
01:00 Meet Betania Allo
01:58 From Argentina to Cybersecurity
04:27 Balancing PhD and Work
05:39 Law Degree as Passport
09:02 Cybersecurity Culture Worldwide
10:47 Saudi Vision and AI Policy
12:36 Finding Global Legal Roles
13:37 Conferences and Speaking Gigs
14:33 Bridging Lawyers and Engineers
16:17 Build Your Network
17:19 Where to Find Betania
17:44 Final Thanks and Outro

On the Law Practice Podcast, Terrell and guest Rachel Clar discuss whether AI is “breaking” the legal industry and how it is compressing the timeline for lawyers, especially women in Big Law, to become irreplaceable and reach income or equity partnership. Rachel, an attorney and founder of Interconnected Us, argues that protecting career trajectory increasingly requires building a book of business, noting a Major, Lindsey & Africa study showing average rainmaking gaps (men $3.9M vs women $2.4M) that affect compensation. She shares her trademarked BNRI framework: Branding (self-awareness and a clear niche beyond practice area), Networking (identifying where target clients and decision-makers gather, using AI and LinkedIn research), Rainmaking/relational selling (making the ask and handling rejection), and Influence (amplifying value and building internal allies for partnership). She also offers resources via LinkedIn and interconnectedus.com, including a legal conference cheat sheet.

00:00 AI Compresses Partnership
00:34 Is AI Breaking the Law
01:08 Meet Rachel Claire
02:25 Women Leadership Pressure
03:16 Origination Gap Numbers
04:18 Timeline Before AI
05:42 Dinner Party Advice
07:17 BNRI Branding First
08:50 Networking With AI
10:15 Relational Selling Ask
11:43 Influence Inside Firm
13:10 How To Connect
13:58 Free Conference Cheat Sheet
14:39 Why This Work Matters
16:50 Closing Thanks

On the Law Practice podcast, host Terrell Turner welcomes back Deb Feder, a former big law and in-house lawyer turned consultant, to discuss practical business development and client relationship strategies for lawyers. Feder explains her approach to business development as three parts: growing your network, nurturing relationships, and sharing expertise, emphasizing that it’s often overcomplicated and can be done in small daily actions. She encourages simple, human connections (starting with “hello”), asking better client-focused questions, and avoiding assumptions, such as making AI the center of every client conversation; instead, lawyers should gauge clients’ interest and use AI tools thoughtfully without sacrificing trust. Feder advises building habits early and shares quick examples like check-ins, follow-ups after conferences, and keeping topic lists, along with a monthly calendar of five-minute tasks available on her website.

00:00 Five Minute Business Development
00:23 Podcast Welcome and Disclaimer
01:01 Meet Deb Feder
01:33 From Lawyer to Consultant
03:11 Why Client Questions Matter
05:00 Business Development Basics
07:12 Stop Overcomplicating Networking
10:29 AI in Client Conversations
15:16 Build the Daily Habit
16:38 Five Minute Task Ideas
18:06 Resources and Wrap Up

On the Law Practice podcast, host Terrell interviews career coach and former attorney Dena Lefkowitz about navigating a legal career without burning out. Dena shares how, after over 20 years practicing law, she realized law school didn’t prepare lawyers for the business of law—networking, marketing, and sales—and that lawyers themselves must generate business. She describes feeling embarrassed after discovering that litigation was a poor fit for her personality and values, and warns against “doubling down” on past decisions when a role harms your health or life. Dena explains using values and the five-factor personality traits (openness, conscientiousness, extroversion/introversion, agreeableness, neuroticism) to evaluate fit, and discusses finding outlets or pivots when misaligned. She recounts a back injury that prompted a change to in-house counsel work aligned with her values, and highlights her book, "Winning in Your Own Court."

00:00 Lawyers Are Miserable
00:12 Podcast Intro Disclaimer
00:50 Meet Dena Lefkowitz
01:33 Two Things Law School Missed
02:23 Wrong Practice Area Realization
04:20 Embarrassment And Sunk Costs
06:17 Trapped By Lifestyle Choices
07:50 Values Driven Career Pivot
08:50 Big Five Personality Factors
10:32 Misalignment And Mental Health
13:00 Injury Forced A Change
14:24 Book Title And Key Laws
15:44 How To Contact Dena
16:15 Final Thanks And Outro

Live at the ABA TECHSHOW, host Terrell interviews Jay McAllister of Paragon Tech about how law firms should evaluate legal technology, especially AI, with a skeptical, results-driven approach. Jay explains that marketing hype often overstates capabilities, using software “integrations” as an example, where firms must check whether syncing is unidirectional or bidirectional. He ties vendor due diligence to lawyers’ duty of competence, urging firms to understand the benefits and risks of new tech and to ask what large language model powers a tool and, more importantly, what primary legal data sources it uses to reduce hallucinations. Jay describes Paragon’s “Leverage AI” framework, starting with identifying a firm’s limiting operational constraint, and shares a case where a custom GPT cut discovery chronology work from over an hour to five minutes with human verification.

00:00 Live From TECHSHOW
00:20 Meet Jay And Paragon
00:58 Why Stay Skeptical
01:24 Integration Claims Explained
02:57 Vendor Due Diligence
03:35 Ai Model Hype Check
05:59 Ask About Data Sources
08:45 Leverage AI Framework
09:14 Case Study Discovery Timeline
10:49 Human In The Loop
11:51 Pick The Right Tool
12:50 Show Floor Wrap Up
13:36 Closing Thanks