What happens when an arrogant, 60-year-old youth minister who thinks he has his spiritual life completely "figured out" arrives at the rites terrified and is forced to tear down his carefully constructed walls?

In this twenty-third episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Mike Whitman for a deeply reflective conversation about his 2008 initiation at Pilgrim Park, Illinois. Mike shares how a master's class with former guest Bill McElroy led him to blindly say yes to an experience that left him questioning his decisions just four hours into the drive.

Mike reflects on the terror of his first ritual, his instinct to constantly rebuild his emotional walls, and the miraculous softening that occurred when he unexpectedly stepped into a paternal role for two younger men. As an Enneagram Type One, Mike speaks with profound wisdom about asking God for "radical inner honesty," learning to accept his own imperfections, and finally dropping his lifelong "spousal spirituality" out of his head and into his heart. Whether you are a man hiding behind a mask or looking to soften your own sharp edges, Mike's story is an inspiring invitation to step into true vulnerability.

Episode Highlights

• The Arrogant Arrival: Thinking you have your spiritual life completely figured out, only to realize you are stuck behind your own masks.
• Tearing Down Walls: The cyclical terror of having boundaries broken down in ritual, only to nervously rebuild them again.
• The Enneagram One: How recognizing the "Perfectionist" mask softened a lifetime of harsh internal criticism and made him "a lot less negative".
• Radical Inner Honesty: Stepping into the pain of recognizing personal dishonesty and mixed motives instead of escaping into an image.
• Spousal Spirituality: Dropping a lifelong faith from the intellect down into the heart.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor)
• Practicing Presence App
• Illuman MROP
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Brian Mueller (Host)

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Mike Whitman for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a "top-heavy" intellectual, whose marriage and worldview are crumbling, lies face down in a dry creek bed and finally lets his body do the weeping?

In this twenty-second episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Matthew Lyda for a deeply moving conversation about his 2018 initiation at Pilgrim Park, Illinois. Matthew, a spiritual director from Spartanburg, South Carolina, shares how he arrived at the rites in the midst of the "full catastrophe"—navigating interrupted dreams of living overseas, a marriage left in ashes, and a 30-year religious paradigm shift that was losing its grip on his life.

Episode Highlights

• The Top-Heavy Stick Figure: Moving away from a life dominated by head-knowledge to recovering a deep trust in the body's wisdom.
• The Dried Creek Bed: The visceral power of laying prostrate in nature and bypassing the thinking brain to release tears.
• The Grandfather Ambush: Unloading 20 years of hidden grief and the mysterious synchronicity that prepared him for a real-life loss.
• The 500-Year Rummage Sale: Navigating the terrifying freefall of a religious paradigm shift when deeply held beliefs stop working.
• A Warning for Young Men: Matthew's reverse-psychology advice on why you absolutely shouldn't attend the rites if you aren't ready to be loved and transformed.

Episode Specific Links

Matthew Lyda:

• Recover the Wild
• The Center for Sexual and Relational Health
• Recover The Wild: Unfiltered Poems and Prayers
• Defeated by Great Waters: Where is the hope inside of impossible places?

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor)
• Practicing Presence App
• Illuman MROP
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr
• Brian Mueller (Host)

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Matthew Lyda for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when an ex-SWAT officer and first-responder chaplain arrives at the rites, only to find that the hardest part is holding space for other men trying to "fix" him?

In this twenty-first episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Matt Domyancic for an incredibly raw and unique conversation about his initiation in Big Bear, California. Matt shares his perspective as a high-alpha, former football player and cop who had already spent decades diving into psychoanalysis, silent retreats, and spiritual direction before arriving at the rites.

Episode Highlights

• The Helper's High: Why men need to trade their desire to "fix" others for an experience of mystery and awe.
• The Myth of the Father Wound: Matt's experience of being pushed to manufacture trauma, and the beauty of honoring a good father.
• True Inner Work: Why shooting guns, crawling in the mud, and doing cold plunges isn't the deeper spiritual work men actually need.
• Butterflies in Formation: A powerful sports psychology lesson on jumping off the platform and embracing communal vulnerability.

Episode Specific Links

Matt Domyancic:

• https://www.tacticalchaplain.com
• https://www.instagram.com/thinbluelinespirituality
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/matt-domyancic-b7203b6

"Helping, Fixing or Serving?" by Rachel Naomi Remen, MD:

• https://www.dailygood.org/story/218/helping-fixing-or-serving-rachel-naomi-remen-md

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Matt Domyancic for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a man searching for a "mystical" vision in the desert instead discovers a hidden, intergenerational wound—and decides to end his family's lineage of pain with a single pound of his fist?

In this twentieth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Bill McElroy for a powerful conversation about his 2004 initiation at Ghost Ranch, New Mexico. Bill reflects on his spiritual journey leading up to the desert and speaks openly about redefining masculinity. Whether you are carrying the weight of a "father hunger" or simply looking for men to walk shoulder-to-shoulder with in the second half of life, Bill's story is a brilliant reminder to trust your intuition and enter the sacred container.

Episode Highlights

• No Kings in My Life: How discovering the four masculine archetypes made Bill realize he lacked mature male mentors.
• "It Stops With Me": The powerful moment in a grief ritual where Bill took on the pain of his patriarchal lineage and dropped to his knees.
• Beyond John Wayne: Unlearning the toxic toughness of popular culture to embrace a healthy masculinity that is present and generative for others.
• Shoulder-to-Shoulder: Why Bill continues to return to the rites year after year as an elder, setting up chairs and holding the space for new men.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• “Healing” by D. H. Lawrence: https://justiceconversation.org/2018/12/28/healing-by-d-h-lawrence
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Bill McElroy for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a stressed-out doctoral student, given just three weeks to save his academic career, finds himself completely unplugged in the desert and invited to dismantle his ego?

In this nineteenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Doug Shirley for a profound conversation about his 2016 initiation at Aravaipa Canyon. Doug, an academic, therapist, and convener for Awaken 2026, shares how he arrived at the rites "freaked out" after his dissertation extension was denied, searching for a "flashy" spiritual experience to stroke his intact ego.

Doug speaks with raw honesty about the unglamorous reality of real growth—joking that transformation usually "sucks ass" in the moment—and recounts how a timely intervention from a brother kept him from quitting early.

Episode Highlights

• The Dissertation Crisis: Arriving in the desert unplugged and under immense pressure from a looming academic deadline.
• Transformation Isn't Pretty: Confronting the feeling of being an impostor in ritual and realizing that profound shifts often feel like longing and disruption.
• The River Intervention: How a firm nudge from a trusted brother stopped Doug from packing it in and going home.
• The "We" of Masculinity: Moving past the idea of a singular masculine ideal to discover the sacred rhythms that exist shoulder-to-shoulder in community.
• Surprised by Support: Entering the rites expecting judgment and puffed-up chests, only to find an overwhelming environment of love.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Doug Shirley for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a man is told by Father Richard Rohr that he isn't "old enough" to have a profound spiritual experience, only to realize exactly what he meant thirty years later?

In this eighteenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Tom Melancon for a fascinating look at his lifelong spiritual journey. Tom, a recently retired federal mediator from Seattle, first attended retreats with Richard Rohr in the early 1990s, but it wasn't until he made his official rites at Sky Camp in Oregon at age 64 that he fully experienced the deep transformation he had been seeking.

Tom speaks openly about his 24-year journey in 12-step recovery and the beautiful parallels between recovery mentorship and the open spirituality of Illuman. Whether you are navigating the transition into retirement or looking for a healthier path for the young men in your life, Tom's story is a brilliant testament to trusting the long arc of your own spiritual growth.

Episode Highlights

• "You're Not Old Enough": A breakfast conversation with Richard Rohr in the 90s that finally made sense three decades later.
• Jumping Off the Tower: Embracing the metaphor of building a career of accomplishments and then finding the courage to jump.
• The Posse: How volunteering for a ritual on the very first day led to a deep bond with a group of brothers.
• A State of Grace: Walking in a "liminal space" for months after the rites, where the world simply looked and sounded different.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Tom Melancon for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

What happens when a spiritually exhausted first responder, hoping for a magical message from God, discovers that true initiation is actually an invitation into human wholeness?

In this seventeenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Brody Fulk for an insightful conversation about his 2024 initiation at Deroche in British Columbia, Canada. Brody arrived at the rites physically and spiritually exhausted from juggling two jobs, seeking internal peace and a radical shift in his thinking.

Brody speaks candidly about confronting his fear of "cults" and letting go of the expectation that God would simply hand him all the answers. He discusses how a tragic call as a first responder eventually led him to Illuman. From moving past the Hollywood model of a man to embracing the guidance of wise elders, Brody's story is a profound reminder of the power of community.

Episode Highlights

• The First Canadian Rites: Overlooking the Fraser Valley and experiencing the massive, mossy forests of the Pacific Northwest.
• Cults and Expectations: Confronting fears of manipulation and letting go of the desire for a "magical" divine message.
• A Shift in Harmony: How the rites awakened an appreciation for poetry and transformed his relationship with playing the guitar.
• Redefining Masculinity: Moving away from the Hollywood provider model to an integrated sense of human wholeness.
• The Need for Elders: Brody's heartfelt advice for younger men to find wise voices they can trust .

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Brody Fulk for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams

This episode is dedicated to the memory of Donovan Vicha.

What happens when a man who spent 45 years carrying the pain of his father's rejection finally shatters the past to discover he is the "possibility of love, joy, and wonder"?

In this sixteenth episode of Follow Me to the M-R-O-P!, host Brian Mueller sits down with Rich Horton for a deeply moving conversation about his 2014 initiation at Pilgrim Park, Illinois. Rich arrived at the rites in his early 70s seeking to navigate a crossroads in his retirement. He shares the profound sense of welcome he felt on the first night—a deep acceptance he hadn't fully experienced since coming out as a gay man in 1989.

Rich reflects on the visceral experience of breaking a mirror to shatter his past, and speaks candidly about healing from the emotional wound of being told his father "didn't want a sissy for his sons". From finding his daily spirit guide in a red cardinal to honoring the memory of a recently passed brother, Rich's story highlights the transformative power of a welcoming, shoulder-to-shoulder male community.

Episode Highlights

• The Welcome of the Drum: Finding immediate acceptance and safety as a gay man entering the rites.
• Shattering the Past: The profound impact of the broken mirror ritual and looking into the eyes of other men.
• Overcoming the "Sissy" Wound: Healing from a father's painful words after 45 years.
• Love, Joy, and Wonder: A moment of meditation in the trees that defined his soul's true nature.

Links & Resources

• Choosing Presence (Sponsor): https://choosingpresence.org
• Practicing Presence App: https://choosingpresence.org/app
• Illuman MROP page: https://illuman.org/mrop
• Adam's Return by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PzVESH
• Falling Upward by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/4uUM64P
• Breathing Under Water by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/47qLNVp
• From Wild Man to Wise Man by Richard Rohr: https://amzn.to/3PKkHmj
• Brian Mueller (Host): https://brianmueller.com

Credits

• First and foremost, thank you to Rich Horton for sharing his journey and his heart with us today.
• Thank you to Fr. Richard Rohr and the men of Illuman who have stewarded the Men’s Rites of Passage since 1996.
• Thank you to Jim Heaney and Jim Taylor for their dedication to Choosing Presence.

Music Credits:

• Slow Mo Dreams by Soundroll
• Becoming a Legend by Vens Adams