A CMO Confidential Interview With Aarron Spinley, Director at the Field Bell Institute and Author of "The Customering Method."

Aarron discusses his belief that customer management deserves its own discipline as part of marketing, that understanding customer needs is the foundation of sales, and why popular metrics can be misleading.

Key topics include:

- Why you should "learn the asset versus learn instead of the measures"

- The need to focus on "unnatural churn"

- The difference between automation and service

Tune in to hear why he's not fully on board with NPS and a story about "trendy rabbit holes."

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 - Introduction to CMO Confidential and Guest Aarron Spinley

01:23 - Defining Customer Experience and "Customering"

04:35 - Limitations of Marketing Concepts and Survey Data in Customer Management

06:53 - Drivers of Customer Loyalty vs. Net Promoter Score (NPS)

10:11 - The Relationship Between Customer Satisfaction and Loyalty in Banking

12:30 - The Correct Sequence of Customer Management: Asset, System, Measurement

13:59 - Market Orientation vs. Sales Orientation within a Customer Base

27:28 - What Effective Customer Interaction Looks Like

30:02 - The Role of AI and Centralized Decisioning/Orchestration

32:52 - Career Advice: Focus on Fundamentals Over Tools

34:36 - Conclusion and Closing Remarks

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Michael Treff, the CEO of Code and Theory. Michael shares his belief that the ambiguity in markets is here to stay, why traditional B2B playbooks aren't working like they used to, and why this is the "dawn of a new era for creativity."

Key topics include:

- Three key B2B questions companies are asking

- The concepts of "stacking talent" and "forward-deployed teams"

- The need to be truly honest about your organization and the marketplace

- Why the future for agencies will be driven by tech, software, and service

Tune in to hear about why you should "Keep it simple," and why the future will bring "A reckoning for the service business."

⏱️ Chapters

1:12 - Guest Introduction and Overview of the B2B Marketplace

4:35 - Technology Investments and the Changing Journey

6:16 - Evolving Roles within the C-Suite

7:20 - Culture Shifts and the Service Business Reckoning

13:12 - Walled Gardens vs. Open Data Environments

16:12 - Synthetic Data Sets

18:40 - Advice for Traditional Clients

26:35 - The Future of Creativity in B2B

31:25 - Predictions for the Future

33:37 - Closing and Final Advice

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Drew Pinto, EVP and Chief Revenue and Technology Officer of Marriott International. Drew discusses the concept that architecture and data should be viewed as a means to an end, methods for assessing legacy systems, and why tech is critical to customer experience.

Key topics include:

- Why he believes in "built to change”

- Ways to assess your data

- Why marketers shouldn't get "enamored by solutions

- The idea of "buying commodities" vs. building everything yourself

Tune in to hear a discussion about "data puddles," and why marketers should take their tech partners to dinner.

⏱️ Chapters

1:12 - Introduction and Guest Welcome

2:32 -Defining Data Architecture

5:00 - Evaluating Legacy Systems

12:51 - Sponsor Message: Typeface ARC Agents

13:55 - Built to Change vs. Built to Last

17:15 - Tech Sourcing: Build vs. Buy

21:11 - Customer Experience and Data Management

27:54 - Common Mistakes and Advice for Marketers

30:44 - Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Dr. David Bray, Distinguished Fellow and Chair of the Accelerator with the Alfred Lee Loomis Innovation Council and bipartisan advisor on cyber, space, AI as well as countering terrorism, inauthentic information campaigns, and bioterrorism.

David shares thoughts on why geopolitics have become so important so quickly, the universal breakdown in trust, how anxiety fuels anger, which fuels grievance, and how business leaders might adjust to all of this.

Key topics include:

- Why geopolitical and tech issues should be added to the "risk management committee"

- The need for contingency planning and directional decision-making

- How anyone is now the equivalent of a 1970's cold war spy

- Why "getting better at discernment" is critical.

Tune in to hear about "responsible heretics" and how a high school science project resulted in a South American assignment for a 17-year old.

⏱️ Chapters

1:12: Introducing Dr. David Bray

1:39: Why Business Leaders Should Care About Geopolitics

2:33: Mapping the Ripple Effects of Technological Revolutions

4:47: Historical Context: 1890s Polarization and Yellow Journalism

7:01: Societal Anxiety, Governance, and the Path to Anarchy

9:10: Impact on Global Supply Chains and Geopolitical Uncertainty

12:25: The Complexity of Microprocessors and Hardware Risks

14:10: Upgrading the Board: Risk Management for Tech and Geopolitics

16:21: Pressures on the C-Suite and Decision-Making with Incomplete Information

18:06: Marketing in a Volatile Landscape: Early Signal Networks

20:07: The Role of the “Responsible Heretic” in Avoiding Groupthink

23:29: Managing Super-Empowered Employees and Information Capabilities

25:16: Disinformation Strategy: From Operation Denver to Modern Bots

27:56: Balancing Principles, Ethics, and Global Competitiveness

29:07: Preparing for the Future: Data Reassessment and the Art of Discernment

31:43: Strategic Headspace: Establishing Pivot Options

33:11: Predictions for 2026: AI Pushback and Conflict De-escalation

34:03: Funniest Story: The South American Science Fair Mosh Pit

35:51: Practical Advice: Leadership vs. Management Expectations

36:07: Final Takeaways and Closing Remarks

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Joe Gagliese, Co-Founder and CEO at Viral Nation, a full-service digital and social agency.

Joe discusses the concept of social as "the people's media," details why he believes "discovery begins with social" and outlines how brands might think about becoming "social centered."

Key topics include:

• Why social has become a prerequisite for certain categories
• Questions to ask your social agency
• Why measurement is still a bit of an Achilles heel
• How to think of social as a living organism which works in concert with the rest of your marketing

Tune in to hear why social is so important for autos and thoughts on reading Marcus Aurelius.

⏱️ Chapters

01:12 - Introduction to CMO Confidential

01:42 - Introducing Joe Gagliese

02:46 - Defining "Social First"

05:40 - Social Strategy as a Behavioral System

08:03 - The Prerequisite of Radical Transparency

12:11 - Transitioning to a Social-First Organization

15:03 - Maintaining Authenticity with Creators

17:33 - Steps to Develop a Social-First Strategy

20:20 - Determining Brand Readiness

22:01 - Measuring Social Performance and Conversion

25:18 - Five Questions to Ask Social Agencies

28:28 - Common Mistakes in Social Marketing

30:10 - Practical Advice and Closing Remarks

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo.

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A CMO Confidential Interview with Mike Kaput, the Chief Content Officer at SmarterX and Marketing AI Institute and co-host of "The Artificial Intelligence Show."

Mike shares research across 2000 companies regarding AI adoption and highlights the gap between what companies say they are doing and what is happening, the fact that only 25% of companies have achieved "scaling" status, and how larger companies can be slowed by complexity.

Key topics include:

- Why training and education represent the biggest obstacle to progress

- Why you should measure "tool usage"

- Why job clarity is important for agents.

Tune in to hear about rising AI pessimism and building yourself a "second brain."

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo

Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring world-class marketing leaders, board members, and C-Suite executives.

⏱️ Chapters

01:12 – Intro: Meet Mike Kaput & AI topic overview

02:37 – State of AI report: how the data was gathered

05:53 – Key insight: people vs organizations gap

06:43 – What scaling AI actually looks like

08:06 – Pilot phase reality across companies

10:11 – AI hype vs real adoption

13:02 – The “say vs do” gap in execution

14:15 – AI literacy is the #1 barrier

16:13 – How to assess AI maturity (individual & company)

20:06 – Biggest mistake: tools without training

23:20 – AI agents, risks, and what’s next

#AI #ArtificialIntelligence #AIMarketing #AIBusiness #GenerativeAI #AIAgents #MarketingAI #DigitalTransformation #AIAdoption #AITrends #FutureOfWork #Automation #MarketingStrategy #EnterpriseAI #AIWorkflows #AIEducation #AProductivity #AIInnovation

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This week on CMO Confidential, we're revisiting our conversation with Tom Goodwin from August of 2025 - this is one of our favorites with topics just as relevant to marketers today.

Tom discusses his belief that today's CMO's are overly focused on efficiency versus marketing principles and that the contemporary playbook has been created by tech companies focused on performance metrics.

Key topics include:

-An unhealthy focus on the speed of measurement and short-term results

-Marketers having a "feeling of vulnerability" if they haven't heard of new tech

-The fact that many of the hyped direct-to-consumer brands like Casper and Ridge Wallets aren't actually doing that well

Tune in to hear the underestimated impact of "beauty" and a story about being locked out of a self-driving car.

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo

Subscribe for weekly episodes featuring world-class marketing leaders, board members, and C-Suite executives.

⏱️ Chapters

00:00 – Intro: Meet Tom Goodwin

02:28 – Would 1950s Marketers Beat Today’s CMOs?

05:41 – Is Marketing Actually More Complex Today?

09:15 – Fundamentals vs Growth Hacking & Performance Tactics

11:05 – DTC vs Traditional Brands: What Actually Works

15:13 – Short-Term Metrics, AI Hype & Tech Overload

28:36 – Dark Social, Hidden Influence & What Data Misses

34:21 – Predictions, AI Reality & The Power of Simplicity

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