Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is one of the most recognizable faces of her generation — an actor whose voice you'd know in a single frame. But her real story isn't the one you've watched. It's the one she kept secret: for 20 years she's been a songwriter, and barely anyone — even people who know her — knew it.

This is one of the more honest conversations we've had about being underestimated — as an actor who "couldn't" really be a musician, and as a woman the industry assumed didn't write her own songs — and about what it costs to keep making things purely because you love them.

And The Writer Is... Zooey Deschanel of She & Him!

In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:

• Why she erased social media off her own devices
• The "industry plant" myth — why the industry "can't make anything happen" anymore
• Being told "you'll never make a record, no one will take you seriously" as an actor
• Her "secret agent" identity
• The misogyny she goes to bat against
• Her North Star she chases
• And much more...
• 
  

Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

Join our Patreon for special access, bonus conversations, demo playing opportunities, and guest hangs!

patreon.com/andthewriteris

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our lead sponsor NMPA for making these conversations possible.

NMPA is the National Music Publishers' Association. They fight for songwriters and they fight for this podcast, too.

Chapters

0:00 Intro

1:00 Meet Zooey Deschanel

1:51 Writing alone — and erasing social media to do it

4:49 Why the "industry plant" is a myth

6:37 "You'll never be taken seriously as a musician"

7:25 Her secret identity as a songwriter

11:15 How She & Him released with no name attached

13:01 "I Thought I Saw Your Face Today" — never a single, now #1 on TikTok

15:35 The story behind writing "I Thought I Saw Your Face Today"

17:24 Her dad, the records, and growing up musical

22:44 Brian Wilson, Gershwin, and the Great American Songbook

26:13 Five desert island albums

28:21 Why "A Hard Day's Night" beats the White Album

30:16 Teaching herself piano at six

32:46 Writing her first song at ten

38:42 "I identify as a songwriter, not an actor"

42:15 Dropping out of Northwestern

45:59 A word from our lead sponsor, NMPA

49:23 Finding her voice in the studio — the mic chain

51:56 Recording with Brian Wilson & the gifted mic

55:57 Why she never sold out — turning in finished records

67:03 The lonely sets where her first two records were written

69:35 Almost Famous & Cameron Crowe

72:50 "I'm allergic to selling myself"

76:19 Nobody believes a woman writes her own songs

79:00 Writing for other artists & how publishing splits really work

82:07 Why she loves writing Christmas songs

84:24 500 Days of Summer & music in film

88:36 The songwriting trick: "What if I am her?"

93:21 Dyslexia, reading scripts & why melody sticks

94:56 Why she doesn't do more theater

98:38 Staying clean through party-era Hollywood

100:50 M. Ward — 20 years, never one fight

109:57 Writing alone when everyone's afraid to

111:43 The biggest misconception about her

114:18 Finding your North Star

Credits:

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Watch on Spotify. If you're subscribed to Spotify Premium, you don't get any Spotify ads on our show.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest built an audience of millions before she was old enough to sign a record deal, turned a 30-minute crying freestyle into her debut single, and made one of Gen Z's defining breakup anthems out of a phrase that became its own internet language. But her real story isn't the viral fame or the streams. It's the part that plays like a runaway and teaches like a masterclass: how she left home at 17 to chase music, what it costs to become a person in public, and everything about the business nobody explains until you've already survived it.

And The Writer Is... Nessa Barrett!

In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:

• Why she ran away from home at 17 — a 4AM ticket, six school bags, cops on her trail — to make music

• The truth about "i hope ur miserable until ur dead": she didn't write it, it's not her favorite, and why she sang it anyway

• "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle she cried through in the booth that became her first single

• Why she can't record with Auto-Tune — and what she learned the first time someone handed her a finished song to cut

• Signing to Warner Records on Zoom during Covid — and the messy contract she had to escape first

• "All of my confidence comes from my fans" — the performer who still gets embarrassed easily

• The childhood trauma and the generational cycle she says she's trying to break

• Why she closes her eyes every time she records, and writes a song like she's building a movie

• The lowest point of her career — and how prayer, faith, and going back to her core brought her out of it

• "I've never loved my music as much as this — and I didn't know it could feel this way"

And much more...

🔓 Want in the room? We just launched our Patreon — monthly Zoom hangs where we listen to your demos and give feedback, hang with you directly, occasional guest drop-ins, and the full archive of 200+ audio episodes (Sabrina Carpenter, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Shania Twain, Babyface, and more).

https://www.patreon.com/andthewriteris

Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on my video.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers Association. Your support means the world to us.

Chapters

0:00 Intro — her whole journey has been public

1:37 The cafeteria TikTok that blew up

2:48 A childhood with no stability

3:45 "A lot of trauma — that's what drove me here"

4:20 Why she chose to be open about her struggles

6:50 Music as her safe place + her dad's makeshift studio

9:22 Her first recording, at four years old

10:56 Walking into a real LA studio, terrified

12:21 Songwriting as a diary

14:17 The tell-all she might publish under an alias

17:30 Join the conversation on Patreon

18:21 Stage fright, bullying, and the voice crack

20:34 "All my confidence comes from my fans"

23:44 From cafeteria TikToks toward LA

28:59 Running away at 4AM — the plane ticket story

32:54 Landing at the Sway House at 17

34:54 First sessions, jxdn, and singing other people's songs

36:34 Why she can't record with Auto-Tune

38:07 NMPA: why publishers fight for songwriters

38:49 Learning to ask for what she wanted in the booth

42:24 "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle that became her first song

45:02 Signing to Warner Records on Zoom

50:19 The public breakup, and hearing old songs differently

51:32 "i hope ur miserable until ur dead" — singer vs. listener

54:07 The truth about who wrote her biggest song

55:50 Breaking away from the influencer label

59:06 Building a sonic world — writing like a movie

63:45 Why she closes her eyes every time she records

64:10 Five movies that shape her sound

65:12 Acting, directing, and what still scares her

68:16 The new era: falling back in love with music

70:18 Rapid fire

71:27 The lowest point — and how she came back

74:49 What younger Nessa would admire most

77:19 A message to her parents

78:55 "I've never loved my music as much as this"

79:31 TAPENOTES: Ross & Joe break down the episode

Credits:

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is a Grammy winner, a two-time Billboard #1 artist, and one of the defining pop voices of the last decade. But her real story isn't the anthems or the awards. It's the part that plays like a rollercoaster and teaches like a masterclass: how she almost quit, what going #1 actually felt like, and everything about the music business nobody explains until you've survived it.

The press version skips the touring deficits, the depression at the top, and the moment in an Echo Park apartment when she nearly took a job at Smoothie King. The question underneath everything she says: once you stop chasing the metric and the moment — who do you become?

And The Writer Is... Lizzo!

In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:

• Why she wanted to quit music the day "Truth Hurts" went #1 — and the 2017 low point that was actually worse

• The touring economics no one explains: how you gross $1M and still finish the year in the red

• Why the indie grind that built her, in her view, no longer leads to the mainstream

• "She stopped giving a fuck about what we wanted" — Beyoncé's self-titled as a blueprint for artistic autonomy

• Why she only talks to people who buy her music — and what comment sections do to her nervous system

• The bumper-sticker hook theory — why "Truth Hurts" works when it breaks every rule

• Writing "About Damn Time": 83 versions of the chorus, and how the simplest line won

• Robert Glasper's lesson: there's no such thing as a wrong note

• Why good songs don't sound great at first — watching "Good as Hell" go from silly to gospel

• "I make whatever the f*** I want" — and why arriving at that sentence took everything before it

And much more...

🔓 Want in the room? We just launched our Patreon — monthly Zoom hangs where we listen to your demos and give feedback, hang with you directly, occasional guest drop-ins, and the full archive of 200+ audio episodes (Sabrina Carpenter, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Shania Twain, Babyface, and more).

[www.patreon.com/andthewriteris](https://www.patreon.com/andthewriteris)

Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us.

Credits:

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Post-Production VFX by Pratik Karki

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is a multi-Latin-Grammy-winning songwriter and producer with a wall of platinum records — and one of the few people in music willing to say the quiet part out loud. He came up as an actor and a rapper, moved to LA broke, stumbled into songwriting, and turned it into the kind of career most writers spend a lifetime chasing. He's also built one of the sharpest voices in the room as the host of his own show, Good Luck With Gino.

This is one of the most honest conversations we've had about how the music business actually works in 2026 — not the clean version, the real one. Why roughly 75% of working writers now survive on K-pop. How the pitch song quietly died and took the professional songwriter down with it. Artists taking songwriting credit on songs they didn't write — and exactly how labels split the writers up to play them against each other and shave points. Gino lays out the one rule every songwriter needs before their next cut, when it's worth standing on business, and when you "roll over like a dog" because the record's too big to lose.

And The Writer Is... Gino The Ghost!

In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:

• How he came up — actor, rapper, broke in LA, then stumbled into songwriting

• Treating every podcast episode like an album of singles

• Why ~75% of working writers now live off K-pop

• What pitch records used to be — Clive Davis, Barry Manilow & the lost art of outside songs

• The death of the professional songwriter (and why talent-show winners get nothing now)

• Artists taking credit for songs they didn't write — and how to combat it

• The "$15K buy-me-out" story & when to stand on business vs. roll over

• The split shakedown — how labels pit writers against each other, and the rule that beats it

• Why generosity makes you more money than being a prick

And much more...

🔓 This is only part of the conversation. The full extended, exclusive interview is on our Patreon — where Gino goes even further:

• The Bryan Cranston mindset that changed everything for him: "I don't need this role"

• The craziest stories he's ever had in the studio (the fight, the NDA, the booth writer)

• Drugs, weed, and vices — and why the "it makes me more creative" thing is a myth

• His no-apologies case for AI in music — and why he calls the backlash performative

• The synesthesia call-out nobody else will make

• How you actually break in (it's not the biggest rooms)

• Why songwriters deserve points and fees — and the fight to make it happen

Get the full uncut episode and every extended conversation at www.patreon.com/andthewriteris.

Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

FINAL CHAPTER TIMESTAMPS (YouTube — public cut)

0:00 "Have you had to learn to be fearless?" — actor, rapper, broke in LA

0:39 Building the podcast — and why they resisted video for 200 episodes

2:35 The clip era: treating every episode like an album of singles

4:10 Music Monday–Friday, podcast at night — and learning Spanish for Latin music

5:15 Sessions in 2026: "I only do stuff I'm having fun doing"

5:42 Why ~75% of working writers now live off K-pop

7:19 What pitch records used to be — Clive Davis, Barry Manilow & outside songs

8:14 The death of the professional songwriter (and why talent-show winners get nothing)

10:24 Why artists should collaborate with professional writers

11:43 Artists taking credit for songs they didn't write — how to combat it

12:06 "Buy me out" — the $15K publishing story & when to stand on business

13:41 The split shakedown: how labels pit writers against each other

14:46 The rule every songwriter needs: talk first, start a chain

16:13 Why generosity beats being a prick once everyone's good

17:11 The craziest studio stories… (continued on Patreon)

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.