Today's guest is one of the most recognizable faces of her generation — an actor whose voice you'd know in a single frame. But her real story isn't the one you've watched. It's the one she kept secret: for 20 years she's been a songwriter, and barely anyone — even people who know her — knew it.

This is one of the more honest conversations we've had about being underestimated — as an actor who "couldn't" really be a musician, and as a woman the industry assumed didn't write her own songs — and about what it costs to keep making things purely because you love them.

And The Writer Is... Zooey Deschanel of She & Him!

In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:

• Why she erased social media off her own devices
• The "industry plant" myth — why the industry "can't make anything happen" anymore
• Being told "you'll never make a record, no one will take you seriously" as an actor
• Her "secret agent" identity
• The misogyny she goes to bat against
• Her North Star she chases
• And much more...
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patreon.com/andthewriteris

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A special thank you to our lead sponsor NMPA for making these conversations possible.

NMPA is the National Music Publishers' Association. They fight for songwriters and they fight for this podcast, too.

Chapters

0:00 Intro

1:00 Meet Zooey Deschanel

1:51 Writing alone — and erasing social media to do it

4:49 Why the "industry plant" is a myth

6:37 "You'll never be taken seriously as a musician"

7:25 Her secret identity as a songwriter

11:15 How She & Him released with no name attached

13:01 "I Thought I Saw Your Face Today" — never a single, now #1 on TikTok

15:35 The story behind writing "I Thought I Saw Your Face Today"

17:24 Her dad, the records, and growing up musical

22:44 Brian Wilson, Gershwin, and the Great American Songbook

26:13 Five desert island albums

28:21 Why "A Hard Day's Night" beats the White Album

30:16 Teaching herself piano at six

32:46 Writing her first song at ten

38:42 "I identify as a songwriter, not an actor"

42:15 Dropping out of Northwestern

45:59 A word from our lead sponsor, NMPA

49:23 Finding her voice in the studio — the mic chain

51:56 Recording with Brian Wilson & the gifted mic

55:57 Why she never sold out — turning in finished records

67:03 The lonely sets where her first two records were written

69:35 Almost Famous & Cameron Crowe

72:50 "I'm allergic to selling myself"

76:19 Nobody believes a woman writes her own songs

79:00 Writing for other artists & how publishing splits really work

82:07 Why she loves writing Christmas songs

84:24 500 Days of Summer & music in film

88:36 The songwriting trick: "What if I am her?"

93:21 Dyslexia, reading scripts & why melody sticks

94:56 Why she doesn't do more theater

98:38 Staying clean through party-era Hollywood

100:50 M. Ward — 20 years, never one fight

109:57 Writing alone when everyone's afraid to

111:43 The biggest misconception about her

114:18 Finding your North Star

Credits:

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Watch on Spotify. If you're subscribed to Spotify Premium, you don't get any Spotify ads on our show.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest built an audience of millions before she was old enough to sign a record deal, turned a 30-minute crying freestyle into her debut single, and made one of Gen Z's defining breakup anthems out of a phrase that became its own internet language. But her real story isn't the viral fame or the streams. It's the part that plays like a runaway and teaches like a masterclass: how she left home at 17 to chase music, what it costs to become a person in public, and everything about the business nobody explains until you've already survived it.

And The Writer Is... Nessa Barrett!

In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on:

• Why she ran away from home at 17 — a 4AM ticket, six school bags, cops on her trail — to make music

• The truth about "i hope ur miserable until ur dead": she didn't write it, it's not her favorite, and why she sang it anyway

• "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle she cried through in the booth that became her first single

• Why she can't record with Auto-Tune — and what she learned the first time someone handed her a finished song to cut

• Signing to Warner Records on Zoom during Covid — and the messy contract she had to escape first

• "All of my confidence comes from my fans" — the performer who still gets embarrassed easily

• The childhood trauma and the generational cycle she says she's trying to break

• Why she closes her eyes every time she records, and writes a song like she's building a movie

• The lowest point of her career — and how prayer, faith, and going back to her core brought her out of it

• "I've never loved my music as much as this — and I didn't know it could feel this way"

And much more...

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https://www.patreon.com/andthewriteris

Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on my video.

Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris

A special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers Association. Your support means the world to us.

Chapters

0:00 Intro — her whole journey has been public

1:37 The cafeteria TikTok that blew up

2:48 A childhood with no stability

3:45 "A lot of trauma — that's what drove me here"

4:20 Why she chose to be open about her struggles

6:50 Music as her safe place + her dad's makeshift studio

9:22 Her first recording, at four years old

10:56 Walking into a real LA studio, terrified

12:21 Songwriting as a diary

14:17 The tell-all she might publish under an alias

17:30 Join the conversation on Patreon

18:21 Stage fright, bullying, and the voice crack

20:34 "All my confidence comes from my fans"

23:44 From cafeteria TikToks toward LA

28:59 Running away at 4AM — the plane ticket story

32:54 Landing at the Sway House at 17

34:54 First sessions, jxdn, and singing other people's songs

36:34 Why she can't record with Auto-Tune

38:07 NMPA: why publishers fight for songwriters

38:49 Learning to ask for what she wanted in the booth

42:24 "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle that became her first song

45:02 Signing to Warner Records on Zoom

50:19 The public breakup, and hearing old songs differently

51:32 "i hope ur miserable until ur dead" — singer vs. listener

54:07 The truth about who wrote her biggest song

55:50 Breaking away from the influencer label

59:06 Building a sonic world — writing like a movie

63:45 Why she closes her eyes every time she records

64:10 Five movies that shape her sound

65:12 Acting, directing, and what still scares her

68:16 The new era: falling back in love with music

70:18 Rapid fire

71:27 The lowest point — and how she came back

74:49 What younger Nessa would admire most

77:19 A message to her parents

78:55 "I've never loved my music as much as this"

79:31 TAPENOTES: Ross & Joe break down the episode

Credits:

Hosted by Ross Golan

Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad

Edited by Jad Saad

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.