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beyond ArtLess

beyond ArtLess

By: Chris Gleason Peter Haberman & Phil Ostrander
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“Beyond ArtLess" with Chris Gleason, Peter Haberman & Phil Ostrander is a podcast that explores the friendships and the community that exists in and outside of the arts and arts education. In each episode of Beyond ArtLess, one of the hosts reveals his mystery guest to the other two. What comes next is a fun-filled conversation revealing the joy of friendship and the artlessness of the hosts. Unlike most successful classrooms, this show is not well planned and probably not worth your time.

© 2026 beyond ArtLess Art Entertainment & Performing Arts Music
Episodes
  • Gene Pokorny

    Gene Pokorny
    May 27 2026
    Send us Fan MailIn the Season 4 finale of Beyond ArtLess, we are joined by legendary Chicago Symphony Orchestra tubist Gene Pokorny for a conversation that moves seamlessly from orchestral artistry to teamwork, teaching, and steam locomotives.With Peter away caring for family, special guest co-host Paul Kile joins Chris and Phil for a finale episode that is somehow thoughtful, hilarious, and significantly more organized than usual.In This Episode: Gene reflects on life inside the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and why he still “pinches himself” walking onto the stage Stories about working with conductors including Riccardo Muti and Klaus Mäkelä The arrival of new principal trombonist Tim Higgins and how personnel changes reshape an orchestra Gene’s philosophy on expressive playing, rubato, and storytelling in music Why so many young brass players focus on technique before expression Lessons learned from legendary teachers including Roger Bobo, Tommy Johnson, and Arnold Jacobs The origins of the Pokorny Seminar and the importance of teamwork in music education Steam locomotives, railroad leadership, and what musicians can learn from the Union Pacific “Big Boy” Why Mahler ultimately beats Shostakovich… at least today Favorite Moments: “You’ve got 52 weeks. I’ve got four measures.” “There’s nothing extraordinarily special about what we’re doing. We just happen to be lucky enough to put together something greater than the sum of the parts.” “We still have to worry about long tones. Jesus.” Also in This Episode: Chris shares his recent trip to hear the Chicago Symphony Orchestra perform Saint-Saëns’ “Organ Symphony” Festival prep chaos: 4,188 students, endless pizza, and waterpark logistics Jury duty panic during concert season The return of the classic “make fun of Peter” segment Details about the new (currently FREE) composition by Erika Svanoe called "Max Joy" and the story behind the premiere and dedication.Thank you, commuters, for riding along with us through another season of Beyond ArtLess. See you in Season 5.Learn More:Chicago Symphony OrchestraPokorny Low Brass SeminarCredits:Skirmish and Dance · Jeffrey Reynolds Big Boy Album ℗ 2005 Summit Records Released on: 2001-02-01. https://youtu.be/1uSzYq-08Iw?si=XvAfQfuoWTkfCHiFCarl Sagan's Pale Blue Dot OFFICIAL. As seen in 2014's COSMOS: A SpaceTime Odyssey Written by Ann Druyan and Steven Soter Cosmos Studios, Inc., Copyright © 2013 Passage written by Carl Sagan for the book Pale Blue Dot published by Random House, Copyright ©1994 Democritus Properties, LLChttps://youtu.be/GO5FwsblpT8?si=iMpXuImhgPO9BPD1Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection": V. Finale. Im Tempo des Scherzos Mahler: Symphony No. 2 "Resurrection": V. Finale. Im Tempo des Scherzos · Carol Neblett · Marilyn Horne · Claudio Abbado · Chicago Symphony Orchestra · Chicago Symphony Chorus Claudio Abbado & Chicago Symphony Orchestra ℗ 1977 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Berlin Released on: 2017-04-21 https://youtu.be/rJWxpR8liF0?si=FMqBfKdVTXYfKDTzGershwin: An American in Paris (Revised F. Campbell-Watson) · James Levine · Chicago Symphony Orchestra The World's Greatest Orchestras - Chicago Symphony Orchestra ℗ 1993 Deutsche Grammophon GmbH, Berlin Released on: 2021-01-09 https://youtu.be/nIw2WJEfZxo?si=qkuxYAcqJq_IzvYySaint-Saëns - Symphony No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 78 "Organ" (Chicago Symphony Orchestra) Camille Saint-Saëns - Symphony No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 78 "Organ"Nikolaj Szeps-Znaider, Conductor Cameron Carpenter, Organ Live at Orchestra Hall, December 2022 https://youtu.be/5xrHCJbyG2M?si=CL03JHIsb0KhXRqQPartita in A minor for Flute Alone BMV 1013 Provided to YouTube by The Orchard Enterprises Partita in A minor for Flute Alone BMV 1013 · Gene Pokorny Tuba Tracks ℗ 2005 Summit Records Released on: 1995-04-01 https://youtu.be/kQcdD33NXfw?si=cLjI8jGxwXeYxrz7REGISTER NOW:2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commissionCOMMISSION POSSIBLE 2028 W/ OMAR THOMAS https://forms.gle/ZswvHWEZK3HBozXZ7FREE MUSIC: Wisconsin Arts Celebration Project (Marie Douglas “Yellow Birds”) https://dpi.wi.gov/fine-arts/wisconsin-arts-celebration-project-0Max Joy - Erika Svanoe https://www.erikasvanoe.com/btn.htmlSupport the show
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    1 hr and 12 mins
  • Tony Marinello III

    Tony Marinello III
    May 17 2026

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    In this episode, we journey through the eclectic world of conducting, education, and cultural authenticity — with a side of humor and some self-deprecating confessions. Our guest, Dr. Anthony Marinello III, is an exemplary musician and educator (and self-professed Commuter) who shares insights on everything from embracing the non-linear career path to the importance of humility, authenticity, and even a mid-career crisis or two. Get your pencils out as Tony shares a treasure trove of great ideas, quotes, books, podcasts, composers and authors to check out. Peter, Chris, and Phil are still trying to spell their own names.

    Key Takeaways:

    • Embracing the chaos: Careers don’t follow a straight line—thank goodness! Our guest’s journey from dentistry to music illustrates how the "multiverse" of possibilities keeps life interesting.
    • The power of humility and curiosity: Approach students and colleagues with respect and a willingness to learn. Be flexible enough to change your mind and your sound.
    • Authenticity over stereotype: True artistry comes from bringing genuine heart and cultural humility, not just imitating or appropriating.
    • The importance of mentorship and identity: From LSU to Virginia Tech, mentors shape us immensely, emphasizing that relationships and feedback are the real game-changers.
    • The value of risk-taking: Sometimes, the best moments happen when you decide to "go for it" despite fears and uncertainties—like risking a rehearsal or an emotional risk on stage.
    • Cultivating community: Whether rehearsing socially or on stage, building trust and respect within groups makes the magic happen—and even a broken window can be a teaching moment.
    • The influence of podcasts and psychology: Exploring the human element—feelings, shared stories, and vulnerability—can elevate ensemble performance and leadership.
    • The importance of "telling your truth": Show up, do the work, be authentic, and stay flexible in your creative and professional pursuits.

    Resources:

    • Learn more about Tony here
    • Illinois State University
    • Work of Adam Grant – Rethink, grow, and challenge your assumptions
    • Mark Brackett’s Emotional Intelligence – Cultivating emotional literacy in leadership
    • Ira Glass’s Creative Process – The patience, craft, and time needed to develop mastery

    REGISTER NOW:

    2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few spots remain

    https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1


    COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS

    https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission


    FREE MUSIC:

    Wisconsin Arts Celebration Project (Marie Douglas “Yellow Birds”)

    https://dpi.wi.gov/fine-arts/wisconsin-arts-celebration-project-0


    CONSIDER BECOMING A SUBSCRIBER:


    Support the show
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    1 hr and 27 mins
  • David Scalise

    David Scalise
    May 9 2026

    Send us Fan Mail

    There is no greater a stumble than an Ostrander introduction of a guest. No helping hands from Gleason or Haberman, either. Our guest is stranded on an island of poorly phrased questions, out of touch follow-ups and frequent misdirects. Our guest David Scalise follows a trend of well-informed, star powered teachers. He handles our poor hosting with ease and a great laugh. He is part of the fabulous Apple Valley music program in Minnesota. David leads the award winning Apple Valley R&B band, and many other groups at the high school. He has had a wide ranging successful teaching career and is the model for meeting students where they are.

    Learn more about David & the Apple Valley Program here:

    https://www.youtube.com/@davidscalise8985

    https://www.avrb.band/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17AopbAxLR8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pG9xAxaMae8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MMd3iM-_h8

    There are a million of these videos - all great.


    REGISTER NOW:

    2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS - A few Jazz spots remain!!

    https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1


    COMMISSION POSSIBLE 2027 W/ ADRIAN SIMS

    https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education/commission


    FREE MUSIC:

    Wisconsin Arts Celebration Project (Marie Douglas “Yellow Birds”)

    https://dpi.wi.gov/fine-arts/wisconsin-arts-celebration-project-0


    HELP SUPPORT THIS BELOW AVERAGE PODCAST HERE:


    Support the show
    Show More Show Less
    1 hr and 3 mins
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