In this episode, Lorenzo Lebrija interviews Margaret Marcuson about sustainable ministry, the importance of setting boundaries, self-care, and managing burnout in church leadership. They explore practical strategies for clergy to lead healthier, more balanced lives while fulfilling their calling.

Margaret Marcuson helps clergy get lighter and less burdened by their ministry so they can have more influence with less stress. She works with leaders from over 20 denominations across North America as teacher and coach. She is the author of Leaders who Last (2009) and Money and Your Ministry (2014). She has taught since 1999 in Leadership in Ministry, a family systems workshop for clergy. An American Baptist minister, she served as pastor at First Baptist Church, Gardner, MA for 13 years. She lives in Portland, OR, where she sings in two choirs. Check out her new book, Sustainable Ministry: How to Lead (and When to Nap).

Links:

New book available now: Sustainable Ministry

Get a checklist for sustainable ministry: margaretmarcuson.com

Key Topics:

• Burnout and over-functioning in ministry
• Setting healthy boundaries without abandoning calling
• The role of spiritual practices in self-care
• Family systems and their impact on leadership
• Strategies for clergy to manage stress and expectations

Keywords:

ministry, clergy burnout, self-care, boundaries, leadership, church, spiritual practice, family systems, over-functioning, sustainable leadership

In this episode, Father Lorenzo Lebrija talks with the Reverend Dan Kline and Reverend Jessie Thompson from St. Paul's in the Desert, Palm Springs, California. They share their journey of revitalizing a small congregation emerging from the challenges of the COVID pandemic. With a remarkable approach to church growth, spiritual formation, and lay leadership, Dan and Jessie discuss how they successfully doubled attendance and fostered a vibrant community. The conversation dives into effective church growth strategies, including the importance of empowering lay leaders and engaging the community. Dan and Jessie also emphasize the significance of being deeply rooted in prayer and how this foundation has influenced their leadership style and the congregation's spiritual life.

Key Topics Covered:

• Church growth and revitalization strategies
• Community listening and engagement
• Spiritual formation and leadership
• Innovative church practices and programs
• Empowering lay leaders and volunteers

Resources Mentioned:

• Their Church Website: https://stpauldesert.church

What might the church look like ten years from now?

In this episode, Lorenzo Lebrija welcomes Loren Richmond Jr.—pastor, chaplain, consultant, author, and host of the Future Christian Podcast—for a conversation about twenty predictions for the future of the church. Inspired by futurist Jane McGonigal's work on imagination and forecasting, Loren reflects on the demographic, cultural, economic, and institutional trends shaping Christian communities in the decades ahead.

The conversation explores everything from volunteer-led congregations and the decline of denominational structures to the future of seminaries, church buildings, worship practices, and clergy leadership. Loren argues that while the gospel itself remains unchanged, the structures surrounding church life are already evolving—and leaders must learn to distinguish between the essentials of faith and the methods used to express it.

Together, Loren and Lorenzo discuss church buildings as community assets, the rise of bivocational and itinerant ministry, creative nonprofit structures, changing worship patterns, and why imagining possible futures is a critical leadership skill. They also wrestle with questions of technology, virtual church, Christian nationalism, denominational identity, and the enduring hope that the church will continue to exist and adapt in every generation.

Together they explore:

• Why church buildings may become community hubs
• The future of denominations and denominational identity
• Seminary education and clergy formation in a changing landscape
• Worship trends, tradition, and authenticity
• Technology, virtual church, and digital ministry
• Creative nonprofit and social enterprise models
• How leaders can prepare for the future today

Resources Mentioned

• Imaginable — Jane McGonigal
• The Church as Community Hub: Sharing Spaces to Help Neighborhoods Thrive — Loren's book
• Future Christian Podcast
• https://lorenrichmondjr.substack.com/p/ten-ways-church-will-be-different
• https://lorenrichmondjr.substack.com/p/ten-more-ways-church-will-be-different

Connect with Loren

• The Church Nerd (Substack)
• @lorenrichmondjr on social media platforms