Episodes

  • Heaven Is Not the End: The Radical Truth of the Physical Resurrection ft. N.T. Wright

    Heaven Is Not the End: The Radical Truth of the Physical Resurrection ft. N.T. Wright
    Mar 12 2026
    In this powerful, long-anticipated conversation, Melanie welcomes renowned Bible scholar and former bishop N.T. Wright (Tom) to discuss the central truth of the Christian faith: the resurrection. Tom unpacks the radical, and often misunderstood, nature of Christ’s physical resurrection as a “new creation prototype” and explains why the ultimate Christian hope is not simply “going to Heaven,” but for new Heavens and a new earth. Drawing from his extensive work in The Resurrection of the Son of God and Surprised by Hope, Tom’s rigorous, Scripture-first approach directly confronts popular, Plato-influenced understandings of the soul, the afterlife, and the timeline of God’s final work. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I routinely tell students the Bible never uses the word ‘heaven’ to denote or describe the ultimate goal of Christian existence. It talks about the new heavens and the new earth into which we will be raised. Likewise, the Bible never uses the word ‘soul’ to denote or describe the sort of creatures that we will be in God’s ultimate new creation.” - N.T. Wright“Paul says in Philippians 1: ‘My desire is to depart and be with the Messiah which is far better.’ But that’s not the end of the story, because in the end, Romans 8, the Spirit who raised Jesus from the dead will give new life to our mortal bodies. And Paul emphasizes that happens through the Holy Spirit who’s been given to us. So the Holy Spirit coming to dwell with us to be fused with our human spirit, that provides the continuity, which in older theological traditions has been provided by the Platonic soul. And so part of my mission in life at the moment is to push back hard against that platonic idea.” - N.T. Wright“The Spirit, God Himself, is coming to dwell in the midst of His people. It’s not in a building, it’s in the hearts and lives of His followers.” - N.T. Wright“The whole Bible is very clear. The heavens and the earth are God’s good creation. The Heavens are the Lord’s, the earth is given to the children of men, but ultimately they’re designed to come together.” - N.T. Wright “People have often gone to fantastical schemes which they’ve invented out of little bits and pieces from Daniel, Zechariah, or the book of Revelation, and then you get all the wild and wacky speculations about the so-called end times.” - N.T. Wright“For many people, the end times is what the whole story is all about. But really, that is a radical misunderstanding of the New Testament. And I speak as a ‘simple’ Bible Christian—I’d rather have the Bible than any human traditions.” - N.T. WrightLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Surprised By Hope by N.T. Wright The Resurrection of the Son of God by N.T. Wright God’s Homecoming by N.T. Wright Miracles by C.S. LewisThe Rise and Fall of Dispensationalism by Daniel G. Hummel*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel! *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Admirato’s websiteN.T. Wright’s Facebook N.T. Wright’s InstagramConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    30 mins
  • The Resurrection and the Reality of Grief: Nancy Guthrie

    The Resurrection and the Reality of Grief: Nancy Guthrie
    Mar 5 2026
    In this deeply moving episode of The Rising, Melanie sits down with Bible teacher and author Nancy Guthrie for an honest conversation about grief, resurrection, and hope that doesn’t hurry pain along. Nancy shares the story of losing two children, and how walking through profound sorrow reshaped her faith, her compassion, and her understanding of what it means to truly believe in the resurrection. Together, they explore how hope can feel distant in the midst of loss, and how to love grieving people without trying to fix them. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“When you love someone and you know that they’re going to die… whether or not the resurrection is really true, do I have any real reason to anticipate that I will be reunited with this person that I love so much?” - Nancy Guthrie“My most succinct advice in terms of what to say or not say [to someone who is grieving] is; does it esteem their loss or diminish it? Does it say, ‘This hurts and I don’t want to make light of it.’ That would be to esteem their loss. Or does it diminish it, like, ‘It’s not really that bad?’” - Nancy Guthrie“Your healing begins when you become joined to Jesus by faith so that His resurrection life flows into your life.” - Melanie Penn“For those of us who have lost someone to death, it can feel like the end, or for those who are maybe facing death—because the only experience we’ve ever had is living in these bodies, in this world with what we can see and touch and feel. This is why we need faith. Faith is believing in what we can’t see.” - Nancy Guthrie Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Holding On to Hope by Nancy GuthrieSaved by Nancy GuthrieThe Message by Eugene PetersonTim Keller’s sermon on resurrection hope*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel! *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Nancy Guthrie’s Website Nancy Guthrie Facebook Nancy Guthrie InstagramNancy Guthrie XConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    29 mins
  • Living Out Resurrection Theology: Dr. Heather Thompson Day

    Living Out Resurrection Theology: Dr. Heather Thompson Day
    Feb 26 2026
    Does believing in life after death actually change how you live right now? Dr. Heather Thompson Day, author of What If I’m Wrong?, joins us for a deeply personal conversation about what it means to truly live out faith, especially when life doesn’t go as planned. Heather shares the emotional story of watching her father, a dedicated minister, struggle with Alzheimer’s and financial hardship—a difficult scenario that forced her to question her own ideas of success, failure, and spiritual reward. We dive into the concept of the “Upside-Down Kingdom,” challenging the worldly pursuit of applause and accolades. Heather offers powerful insights on overcoming disappointment, listening for intuition, and why giving away the last thing you have might be the key to receiving everything you need.

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “It started a process of about three more years of stepping back and kind of reanalyzing this thing called the Upside-Down Kingdom, where often I truly believe what the earth praises, heaven is not impressed by, and what heaven praises the earth ignores. What does it look like? What if that thing that we think is dead, right, is actually a seed that's been planted from generation to generation? How does that change the way you view your life or your passion?” - Heather Thompson Day

    “We all want resurrection, none of us want death. And yet death is required for resurrection. And so how does this look in our actual lives as we dream, right, or try to provide for ourselves or go into ministry or sing or do whatever the passion is? Are we willing to suffer for and through that thing in order to be faithful?” - Heather Thompson Day

    “If you go through the texts of the women at the Resurrection, over and over, they felt, they saw, they touched. Those words are intentional because they are, it's showing you they were, the first witness. They had, and they would, just spend the rest of their time telling people what they had seen and heard.” - Heather Thompson Day

    “When I’m talking about God to somebody, I don’t tell them what I believe. I tell them what I have seen, what I’ve heard, and what I’ve experienced. I tell them what we call in the church world testimonies, right? And I would say I don’t want to spend my forties talking about my testimonies from my thirties. I want to keep having experiences with God.” - Heather Thompson Day

    *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!
    *All episode music is by Melanie Penn.

    Guest’s Links:
    Heather Thompson Day’s website
    Heather Thompson Day’s Facebook
    Heather Thompson Day’s Instagram
    Heather Thompson Day’s YouTube

    Connect with Melanie:
    The Rising (Album)
    Website
    Facebook
    Instagram
    YouTube
    Spotify

    *The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    23 mins
  • Room to Wonder: Perspectives on the Resurrection of Christ with Dr. Joel C. Elowsky

    Room to Wonder: Perspectives on the Resurrection of Christ with Dr. Joel C. Elowsky
    Feb 19 2026
    In this episode of The Rising Podcast, Melanie interviews Dr. Joel C. Elowsky, a distinguished theologian known for his work on the Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture. Dr. Elowsky provides a scholarly deep dive into the resurrection narrative, particularly from the Gospel of John. Listeners will gain insights into the historical and theological perspectives of early Church Fathers on the resurrection, including their interpretations of details such as the linens left in the tomb, the appearances of angels, and Jesus’ interactions with Mary Magdalene and Thomas. This episode is perfect for those seeking a deeper understanding of the resurrection story, yet still allowing for the “wonder” of the mysteries contained within. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“It’s interesting that Christ’s side is pierced. They didn’t pierce His heart. The fathers made a big deal about this because they go back to Genesis and they said, ‘How did God bring Eve into being? Well, He brought her into being from the side of Adam.’ And so they say just as Eve was the birth of the human race, so when Christ’s side is pierced, it’s the birth of a church, because they’re out of his side, of water and blood.” - Dr. Joel C. Elowsky“You know, this is one of the things I like to teach evangelicals about is the fact that the sacraments were actually pretty important in the life of the church. They weren’t kind of add-ons. They were God’s delivery system of His means of grace, His forgiveness. That’s one of the things you learn from the church that way, in the early ages. - Dr. Joel C. Elowsky“I kind of like that the gospel writers leave things out because I think in some ways it’s giving us an opportunity, with our sacred imagination, to just wonder, to meditate on some things and wonder. Thomas doubted, and maybe Mary didn’t. Are there allowances for people where they are? Does God allow different things at different moments, depending on what we need to overcome our doubts?” - Melanie Penn“I see John emphasizing the fact that God has an important place for women in the life of the church, to give them the honor of being the first witnesses. That's pretty amazing to me.” - Dr. Joel C. ElowskyLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Drew UniversityConcordia UniversityCenter for Early African Christianity (CEAC)Ancient Christian Commentary on ScriptureEaster Enigma by John Wenham Ancient Christian Doctrine SeriesOn the Incarnation by Saint Athanasius Popular Patristics Series by St. Vladimir’s PressThomas C. Oden Institute for Classical Christian StudiesSystematic Theology by Thomas C. OdenWorshiping with the Church Fathers by Christopher Hall *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel! *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Dr. Joel C. Elowsky’s FacebookConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    30 mins
  • The Resurrection Mandate: Living in the “Now and Not Yet” ft. Zach Windahl

    The Resurrection Mandate: Living in the “Now and Not Yet” ft. Zach Windahl
    Feb 12 2026
    In this episode of The Rising, host Melanie Penn chats with author and teacher Zach Windahl, who has an amazing knack for helping people really get the Bible in a simple, practical way that changes lives. Zach dives into his latest book, The Bible, Simplified, sharing his perspective on how the whole Bible tells one continuous, overarching story about how much God wants a personal connection with us. Melanie and Zach explore how ancient wisdom sheds light on the idea of a new beginning, what’s significant about the timing of Christ’s return, and how surprising moments of wonder give us a peek at something better right here on earth. Thought-Provoking Quotes:“Something clicked for me when I understood the through line of Scripture and how it’s all one unified story instead of just a bunch of random pieces.” - Zach Windahl“God wants a relationship with His creation, and creation went their own way for many, many, years. It’s been a roller coaster of a relationship with Him, and we are now in the place of moving towards restoration and it’s already begun.” - Zach Windahl“Stories and testimonies should be repeated and talked about constantly, because I think it boosts faith in other people to believe that God could do that for me.” - Zach WindahlLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:The Bible, Simplified by Zach WindahlThe Day the Revolution Began by N.T. Wright Logos Bible SoftwareThe New Bible Commentary*Watch this interview on the YouTube channel! *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Zach Windahl’s WebsiteZach Windahl’s FacebookZach Windahl’s InstagramZach Windahl’s YouTubeConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    23 mins
  • Africa and the First Echoes of Resurrection: Mike Glerup

    Africa and the First Echoes of Resurrection: Mike Glerup
    Feb 5 2026
    In this episode of The Rising, Melanie welcomes scholar Mike Glerup to help widen our understanding of how the resurrection story spread in the earliest days of the church. Together they trace how the news of Jesus’ rising didn’t remain confined to Jerusalem but moved outward quickly, taking root across Africa and shaping communities, languages, and even entire cultures long before Christianity became established in the West. Mike shares why the first documented convert outside Jerusalem was an African official, how early Christian movements grew in places like Nubia and Ethiopia, and how African theologians played a vital role in preserving and interpreting the story of the risen Christ. If you’re curious about how the resurrection spread and how African Christianity helped carry the story forward, this episode offers a fresh and eye-opening look.Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I think the existence and spread of the community kind of proves the Bible, and then the Bible proves the existence of the community. It's kind of a self-reinforcing loop.” - Mike Glerup “You see that the second oldest Christian country in the world is Ethiopia, that it's been praying in an African language to God for almost 17 centuries.” - Mike Glerup “Africans have been confessing Jesus as Lord, that he died, he rose again, and he will come again, he will rise and will come in African languages for much longer than we've been doing it in English.” - Mike Glerup“In a lot of ways, Christianity is the history of trade routes, wherever people traveled, they brought the gospel with them.” - Mike GlerupLinks, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture by Thomas C. OdenNicene CreedClassical Christianity: A Systematic Theology by Thomas C. Oden *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel! *All episode music is by Melanie Penn. Guest’s Links:Mike Glerup’s ProjectConnect with Melanie:The Rising (Album)WebsiteFacebookInstagramYouTubeSpotify*The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    26 mins
  • A Miraculous Claim Under Historical Scrutiny: Michael J. Kruger

    A Miraculous Claim Under Historical Scrutiny: Michael J. Kruger
    Jan 29 2026
    In this compelling episode of The Rising Podcast, host Melanie Penn welcomes Dr. Michael J. Kruger, a leading scholar in New Testament and Early Christianity. Their fascinating discussion goes beyond typical religious debates, exploring the historical evidence surrounding one of humanity's most extraordinary claims: the resurrection of Jesus. Dr. Kruger unpacks the common objections raised by skeptics, revealing how underlying worldviews often shape our evaluation of historical events. Whether you’re a believer, a skeptic, or simply curious about history, this episode challenges assumptions and invites you to consider the profound implications if a man truly rose from the dead. Join us as we scrutinize ancient texts, analyze historical anomalies, and explore why the resurrection, if true, changes everything.

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “If Jesus did not rise from the dead, you’re left with a rather meaningless universe. You have things that just happen and they’re random and there’s no real purpose, no real meaning, but if Jesus did rise from the dead, then that means there’s something more in the universe than you and me.” - Michael J. Kruger

    “The fact that the church exists at all in those early centuries and continued on is an anomaly and a historical fact that deserves a historical explanation. And I would say to somebody, regardless of what you think about God or the existence of God or the Bible, you have to explain that.” - Michael J. Kruger

    “One of the greatest evidences of the resurrection is; how in the world would the early Christian movement have ever survived the death of its savior? Why would it continue? Why would it even exist?” - Michael J. Kruger

    Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
    Surviving Religion 101: Letters to a Christian Student on Keeping the Faith in College by Michael J. Kruger

    *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!
    *All episode music is by Melanie Penn.

    Guest’s Links:
    Michael Kruger’s Website
    Michael Kruger’s Facebook
    Michael Kruger’s X

    Connect with Melanie:
    The Rising (Album)
    Website
    Facebook
    Instagram
    YouTube
    Spotify

    *The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    25 mins
  • Why Thomas Doubted (and Why We Might Too) with Dr. Vincent Bacote

    Why Thomas Doubted (and Why We Might Too) with Dr. Vincent Bacote
    Jan 22 2026
    In this episode of The Rising Podcast, Melanie Penn sits down with Dr. Vincent Bacote, Professor of Theology and Director for the Center for Applied Christian Ethics at Wheaton College. They delve into the oft-told story of “doubting” Thomas from the Bible, exploring why John included this pivotal moment in his gospel and what it reveals about Jesus's patience and understanding of human doubt. Dr. Bacote encourages listeners to re-familiarize themselves with the awe and significance of the resurrection, discussing how to navigate moments of wavering faith and the profound truth that “death is a comma, not a period,” for believers. He also touches on the historicity of the resurrection and the unique claims of Christianity regarding Jesus’s life, death, and ascension.

    Thought-Provoking Quotes:
    “Sometimes we need help to be hopeful. And here's an example of Jesus helping Thomas to believe [He was back from the dead]. He says, ‘Here I am, you can put your hand here.’” - Dr. Vincent Bacote

    "Recognizing the fact that [the resurrection] is such a singular, history changing event, and staying in awe of that is really important. One of the ways we can keep that awe, if we’re over-familiarized, is thinking about where Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that more than 500 people saw him at one time." - Dr. Vincent Bacote

    “I think the truth of the resurrection is to give Christians the confidence that death is a comma and not a period.” - Dr. Vincent Bacote

    Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned In This Episode:
    Black + Evangelical Documentary
    “Born Toward Dying” article by Richard John Neuhaus

    *Watch this interview on the YouTube channel!
    *All episode music is by Melanie Penn.

    Guest’s Links:
    Dr. Vincent Bacote’s Website
    Dr. Vincent Bacote’s Instagram
    Dr. Vincent Bacote’s X
    Dr. Vincent Bacote’s Facebook

    Connect with Melanie:
    The Rising (Album)
    Website
    Facebook
    Instagram
    YouTube
    Spotify

    *The Rising Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media.
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    22 mins