In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Jeannette Stawski, founder of Leading Valiantly and author of The Outdoor Leader, Resilience, Integrity and Adventure. Jeannette brings a rich perspective shaped by guiding, teaching, wilderness medicine, university outdoor programmes, executive coaching, association leadership, and fifteen years as Executive Director of the Association of Outdoor Recreation and Education.

Together, Rob and Jeannette explore what it really means to be an outdoor leader, moving beyond technical competence alone to look at judgement, communication, resilience, integrity, vulnerability and service. The conversation looks closely at failure as a necessary part of learning, the difference between purposeful challenge and unnecessary hardship, and why the outdoors gives such immediate feedback on how we lead, listen and work with others.

Jeannette also reflects on professionalisation within the outdoor sector, the need for fair pay and stronger recognition of outdoor work, and the role that associations and communities of practice can play in shaping a more confident, connected and purposeful field.

This is a thoughtful and energising conversation for outdoor educators, school leaders, programme directors, instructors and anyone interested in how outdoor experiences can help people become more capable, reflective and courageous leaders.

Find out more about Jeannette’s work at Leading Valiantly:
https://www.leadingvaliantly.com/

What if safety was not just about preventing things from going wrong, but learning more deeply from why things usually go right?

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Steve Smith, founder of Experiential Consulting and author of Safety Science for Outdoor and Experiential Education. Together, they explore how outdoor educators, schools and programme leaders can think more clearly about risk, safety, judgement and purposeful challenge.

Steve shares how his experiences in outdoor risk management shaped his thinking around beneficial risk, organisational culture and learning in dynamic environments.

The conversation moves through risk literacy, the limits of being “paper safe”, the difference between work as imagined and work as done, and the importance of learning from near misses, workarounds and everyday success.

This episode is full of thoughtful, practical insight for outdoor educators, school leaders and anyone interested in building a more honest, human and learning-centred approach to safety and risk.

Find out more about Steve and Experiential Consulting:
https://outdoorrisk.com

Steve’s book, Safety Science for Outdoor and Experiential Education, is available here: https://a.co/d/05226cTB

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob sits down with Calum Wright, primary teacher, outdoor learning specialist, and founder of Fresh Air Teacher, for a thoughtful conversation about student agency, inclusion, and knowing learners well.

At the heart of the episode is a key question, when does challenge help a student grow, and when does pushing beyond a comfort zone become unhelpful? Rob and Callum explore how good outdoor practice depends on relationships, trust, and careful observation rather than blanket assumptions.

They discuss:

• why student agency matters in outdoor learning
• how to better understand when a learner needs encouragement, adaptation, or space
• the impact of outdoor learning for students with neurodiverse needs
• why inclusion is never automatic, but built through listening and knowing each child well

A valuable episode for educators interested in learner-centred, inclusive outdoor practice.

What if nature could help us better understand diversity, belonging, and human relationships?

In this episode of the Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob is joined by Dan Kreisberg and Camille Simone Edwards, co-creators of Diversity Education in Nature (DEIN). Together, they explore how the natural world can serve as a powerful lens for teaching equity, empathy, and community.

Dan and Camille share how simple outdoor experiences, can open the door to deeper conversations about identity, inclusion, and what it really means to belong. They unpack the idea of “brave spaces” over “safe spaces,” the importance of starting with low-stakes conversations, and why this work is less about quick results and more about planting seeds for long-term change.

The conversation also dives into the realities of doing DEI work in outdoor education today, from barriers to access and representation to the importance of authenticity, vulnerability, and facilitation skills.

This episode is full of practical insights for educators, facilitators, and anyone interested in using the outdoors as a space for meaningful human connection.

What does real safety leadership look like in outdoor education and why can it sometimes feel like such an isolating role?

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob sits down with Stuart Slay, founder of Slay Risk, a safety leadership and risk advisory practice that works with schools, experiential programs, and outdoor organizations around the world.

Stuart shares his journey from climbing gyms, ski patrol, and avalanche forecasting to becoming a leading voice in safety science and systems thinking. Together, Rob and Stuart explore how culture, leadership, communication, and organizational structure shape the safety of outdoor programs and why many of the biggest risks appear long before anyone steps into the field.

They also discuss:

• Why traditional risk assessments often miss the bigger picture
• How culture influences safety in ways many programs overlook
• What systems thinking can teach outdoor educators
• The growing importance of psychosocial safety and mental health in outdoor programs
• Why safety leaders often feel like the “department of no”
• How risk managers can gain influence inside schools and organizations

This episode offers valuable insights for outdoor educators, program leaders, and risk managers who want to build safer, healthier, and more resilient learning environments.

For more information, you can visit Slay Risk's website www.slayrisk.com and read the full paper on https://js.sagamorepub.com/index.php/jorel/article/view/12408

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob Carmichael sits down with Heidi Oxley, Community Engagement and CAS Coordinator at UWC Thailand, to explore what meaningful service really looks like in schools today.

With nearly 30 years of experience in international education across the UK, Africa, Asia, and the US, Heidi shares how her journey, from physical education to global citizenship leadership, has shaped her belief that true impact comes from relationships, not checklists.

Together, they unpack the shift from “service” to community engagement, challenging traditional models that focus on charity and instead highlighting approaches rooted in reciprocity, humility, and long-term partnerships.

Heidi also shares powerful, real-world examples, from local dog shelters to indigenous communities, showing how sustained, student-led engagement can create genuine impact for both students and communities.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Why “service learning” can reinforce harmful power dynamics
• The difference between helping others and learning with communities
• How CAS can move beyond a tick-box exercise
• The importance of reflection, systems thinking, and consistency
• Practical strategies for building authentic community partnerships
• How outdoor education and community engagement intersect

Whether you’re an IB educator, CAS coordinator, or outdoor learning practitioner, this conversation offers practical insights and a compelling vision for education that develops empathy, agency, and real-world understanding.

In this episode of The Outdoor Education Podcast, Rob Carmichael speaks with Haena Kim, a global leader in experiential education and a driving force behind WildChina Education and Beyond Classrooms. Haenna shares how her early experiences in education sparked a lifelong passion for immersive learning and how she began designing programs as a teenager.

The conversation explores how experiential education operates in a globalized world, the importance of cross-cultural engagement, and how thoughtfully designed field programs can deepen learning outcomes for students. Haenna also discusses the realities of running experiential programs at scale, from safety systems and risk culture to building trust with schools and parents.

They also dive into service learning, and why honest engagement with communities, rather than romanticized narratives, is key to meaningful global citizenship programs.

Finally, Haenna reflects on the future of experiential learning in an AI-driven world and why embodied, real-world experiences may become more valuable than ever.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• How early outdoor experiences can shape lifelong learning journeys
• Designing experiential programs that support real academic outcomes
• Building global citizenship through cross-cultural engagement
• The difference between service learning and transactional volunteering
• Managing safety, risk, and scale in international experiential programs
• Why experiential education may be more important in an AI-driven future

If you care about outdoor education, global learning, and the power of experiences beyond the classroom, this episode offers practical insights and inspiring ideas.

What if real change doesn’t start with massive policies, but with a teaspoon?

In this episode, Rob Carmichael sits down with global educator and sustainability leader d'Arcy Lunn, Group Head of Sustainability and Global Citizenship at Education in Motion and founder of Teaspoons of Change.

From mountaineering in Kyrgyzstan to working on polio eradication in South Sudan with UNICEF, dArcy’s journey reveals how tiny, intentional actions can ripple outward into systemic impact.

Together, Rob and dArcy explore:

• What global citizenship really means (without defining it)
• Sustainability vs regenerative practice — and why it’s not a competition
• How to embed global perspectives in any classroom
• Leading by example (yes, even running to conferences!)
• Why optimism is a discipline, not naïveté

This conversation is an invitation to act, imperfectly, consistently, and collectively.

Because sometimes, two drops… are enough to change the world.