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In this episode, Jerry and Carl talk with Jill Davis, Chief Strategy Officer at Cline, about what experience really means inside an AEC firm.

Jill’s work sits at the intersection of marketing, strategy, brand, client relationships, and internal culture. She explains why a firm’s brand is not just what it says externally. It is also how people inside the firm work together, communicate, make decisions, and show up for clients.

The conversation explores how Cline has thought about growth, leadership transition, rebranding, and the challenge of making something as abstract as “experience” feel tangible. Jill also shares why relationships and professional networks matter, especially when leaders face decisions they cannot make alone.

In this episode, we cover:

• Jill’s path from marketing director to Chief Strategy Officer
• Why Cline’s brand needed to catch up with who the firm had become
• How internal culture affects external client experience
• Why architects and designers may need to think more intentionally about the business relationship side of experience
• How outside perspective can help a firm better understand itself
• Why communication is central to strategy
• Jill’s advice to build a strong professional network

Resource mentioned:

• SmartLess podcast

Where to find Jill:

• Jill Davis on LinkedIn

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Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

Learn More about TOKY & Cline

Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Caitlyn Cook, Marketing and Employee Owner Experience Lead at ESS Companies, to explore how employee ownership reshapes culture, accountability, and brand.

Caitlyn shares how her role bridges marketing and the employee experience, and how ESS has grown rapidly while maintaining a strong sense of ownership across its teams. We talk about what it takes to build connection across regions, why culture cannot be manufactured from the top down, and how employee ownership changes the way people show up to their work.

The conversation also looks at the relationship between employee experience and client experience, why alignment between marketing, HR, and leadership is critical, and how firms can create a culture that actually holds as they scale.

We cover:
• What changes when employees are also owners
• Why employee ownership shapes both culture and brand
• How employee experience influences client experience
• Why culture is built through connection, not messaging
• The importance of alignment across marketing, HR, and leadership
• How to maintain culture while scaling a growing organization

Recommended resource:
• Radical Candor by Kim Scott

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Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

Learn More about TOKY & Cline

Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Brittany Hodak to explore what it really takes to turn satisfied customers into enthusiastic advocates. Drawing from a career that spans entertainment, fan engagement, marketing, and consumer behavior, Brittany brings a sharp perspective on why the brands that win are the ones that create experiences people want to talk about.

Brittany explains that customer experience is no longer judged only against direct competitors. Instead, clients compare every interaction to the best experiences they have anywhere else in their lives. That shift raises the bar for every firm, especially in professional services, where differentiation often comes down to how it feels to work with you.

The conversation also digs into why leaders often separate acquisition from retention, why that is a mistake, and why every person on a team is part of what Brittany calls the “experience department.” Her core idea is simple and powerful: superfans are the stakeholders so delighted by their experience that they become advocates, refer others, and help create more clients.

We cover:
• Why customer experience is the real competitive battlefield
• How brands move from commodity provider to category of one
• What leaders misunderstand about acquisition, retention, and advocacy
• Why every team member contributes to the client experience
• How exceptional experiences naturally drive referrals
• What it means to create superfans, not just satisfied customers

Recommended resource:
• Creating Superfans by Brittany Hodak

Connect With Us

Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

Learn More about TOKY & Cline

Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com