Episodes

  • The Accidental Executive Pastor with Becca Knudsen

    The Accidental Executive Pastor with Becca Knudsen
    Jun 3 2026
    In Episode 10 of Backstage Pastors™️, Phil and Tyler sit down with Becca Knudsen, Executive Pastor at Arvada Vineyard Church, to discuss her unique ministry journey, leading alongside a nationally influential lead pastor, and navigating major organizational transitions. Becca shares how an unexpected path—from Young Life leader to opera student to church administrator—ultimately led her into executive pastoral leadership.The conversation explores the realities of serving at a church whose lead pastor, Jay Pathak, also serves as the national director of Vineyard USA. Becca reflects on the spiritual, organizational, and personal challenges that accompanied that transition, including increased responsibility, leadership development, and organizational growing pains.She also provides an inside look at Arvada Vineyard’s decision to move away from a multi-site model and transition campuses into independent churches. Becca explains the discernment process, lessons learned, and why the church would still choose to plant churches in the future—while intentionally building toward eventual independence.Mentioned Resources⛪️ Arvada Vineyard Church💻 Learn more about the Vineyard movement📅 Check out the Vineyard Gatherings📅The Church Hub CohortsFrom Our Partners💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org Connect with Phil Taylor✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ Connect with Tyler Drewitz✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.LIKE & SUBSCRIBE📹 ⁠Youtube⁠🍏 ⁠Apple⁠🎤 ⁠SpotifyCHAPTERS 03:47 – Becca’s Unconventional Journey into Ministry Leadership13:18 – Leading Alongside the National Director of Vineyard USA20:16 – The Challenges of Organizational Change and Staff Transitions22:45 – Why Arvada Vineyard Reconsidered the Multi-Site Model27:00 – Discernment, Independence, and Church Planting Strategy35:00 – How the Congregation Experienced the Transition37:32 – Building a Staff Rule of Life42:00 – Sabbath, Solitude, Friendship, and Sustainable Ministry46:00 – Final Leadership Reflections and Closing Thoughts– –Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark
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    51 mins
  • Why Healthy Churches Need Better Systems with Tim Stevens

    Why Healthy Churches Need Better Systems with Tim Stevens
    May 20 2026

    In this episode of Backstage Pastors™️ Podcast, Phil and Tyler welcome veteran executive pastor and leadership consultant Tim Stevens for an in-depth conversation on ministry leadership, organizational health, and sustainable service in the second chair. Tim reflects on nearly 40 years of ministry experience spanning nonprofit leadership, Granger Community Church, Vanderbloemen, Willow Creek, and now Leading Smart.

    The conversation explores the evolving role of the executive pastor, including the tension between being highly executive-minded versus deeply pastoral. Tim shares insights from his e-book 40 Lessons in 40 Years: Wisdom for the Long Haul, unpacking lessons about visionary leaders and integrators, why systems are actually pastoral tools, healthy governance, leadership burnout, and managing energy for long-term ministry health.

    Tim also gives listeners an inside look at stepping into Willow Creek during one of the church’s most difficult seasons and explains how focusing on “the next right thing” helped guide the rebuilding process.


    Guest Resources

    • 🗣️Follow Tim
    • 📕40 Lessons in 40 Years: Wisdom for the Long Haul
    • 💻 Right Roles Assessment
    • 💻LeadingSmart.com
    • 🎙️Tim’s Podcast
    • 📅Leading Smart 2026 Gathering


    From Our Partners

    💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org

    Connect with Phil Taylor

    ✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

    ✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠

    🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠

    📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

    💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

    💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠


    Connect with Tyler Drewitz

    ✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠

    🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

    💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

    💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠


    The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.


    LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

    📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

    🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

    🎤 ⁠Spotify


    CHAPTERS

    04:05 Introducing Tim Stevens

    07:18 Tim’s Ministry Journey and Leadership Background 10:18 Executive Pastor Wiring and Leadership Styles

    13:42 40 Lessons in 40 Years

    15:26 Why Visionary Leaders Need Integrators

    18:01 Why Systems Are Pastoral

    22:00 Sustainable Leadership and Managing Energy

    26:06 Board Alignment and Healthy Governance

    30:30 Leaving Church Ministry for Vanderbloemen and Leadership Consulting

    34:10 Rebuilding Willow Creek Through Crisis

    39:58 How Leading Smart Helps Churches Thrive

    – –

    Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.

    Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark
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    49 mins
  • How To Be Second with Nathan Young and Dave Hartman

    How To Be Second with Nathan Young and Dave Hartman
    May 6 2026

    In this episode of the Backstage Pastors™️ Podcast, Phil Taylor and Tyler Drewitz welcome Nathan Young and Dave Hartman, co-authors of How to Be Second to discuss the identity, strengths, and challenges of second-chair leadership. The conversation explores why some leaders are uniquely wired for supporting roles, how executive pastors and operational leaders thrive, and why being second is not a stepping stone but a meaningful destination.


    Guest Resources

    • 🗣️Follow David

    • 🗣️Follow Nathan

    • 📕How to Be Second by Nathan Young and Dave Hartman

    • 💻How to Be Second website: howtobesecond.com

    From Our Partners

    💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org


    Connect with Phil Taylor

    ✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠

    ✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠

    🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠

    📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠

    💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠

    💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠


    Connect with Tyler Drewitz

    ✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠

    🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠

    💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠

    💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠


    The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.


    LIKE & SUBSCRIBE

    📹 ⁠Youtube⁠

    🍏 ⁠Apple⁠

    🎤 ⁠Spotify


    CHAPTERS

    01:31 Phil’s Upcoming Church Projects and Travel

    03:31 Introducing How to Be Second

    06:00 Why Nathan and Dave Wrote the Book

    10:00 Discovering the Identity of Second-Chair Leaders

    17:17 The Difference Between “2s” and “2ICs”

    24:23 Who the Book Is Really For

    29:48 Imposter Syndrome and “Knowing What 10 Is”

    33:07 What They Would Add to the Book Today

    39:39 Final Encouragement and Resources

    – –

    Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.

    Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark
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    46 mins
  • Clay Scroggins on How to Lead When You're Not in Charge

    Clay Scroggins on How to Lead When You're Not in Charge
    Apr 15 2026
    Phil Taylor interviews Clay Scroggins, former leader at North Point Community Church and author of How to Lead When You're Not in Charge. Clay shares his journey from engineering student to pastor, his experience serving in multi-site church leadership, and his transition into speaking and consulting.The conversation centers on leadership without authority—particularly relevant for executive pastors and second-chair leaders. Clay unpacks the myth that leadership requires a title and emphasizes influence as the true currency of leadership. He shares practical examples from both church and corporate environments, highlighting the importance of relational influence, emotional intelligence, and patience.They also discuss navigating organizational limitations, creating “pockets of greatness,” and leading oneself when broader change isn’t possible. Clay addresses the tension of ambition in ministry, distinguishing between selfish ambition and healthy, God-honoring drive.The episode also explores challenges like leading change in resistant environments, working under well-known leaders like Andy Stanley, and discerning when it’s time to stay or leave a role. The conversation is both practical and deeply reflective, offering encouragement and wisdom for leaders serving behind the scenes.Mentioned EventThe XP Summit. Phil Taylor will be presenting at this year’s XP Summit. You can get your tickets at: xpsummit.orgGuest Resources🗣️Follow Clay 📕How to Lead When You're Not in Charge by Clay Scroggins💻clayscroggins.com💻“Should I Stay or Should I Go?” (audio resource by Clay Scroggins)From Our Partners💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org Connect with Phil Taylor✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ Connect with Tyler Drewitz✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.LIKE & SUBSCRIBE📹 ⁠Youtube⁠🍏 ⁠Apple⁠🎤 ⁠SpotifyCHAPTERS[04:00] – Clay’s Ministry Journey[11:00] – The Myth of Leadership Titles[17:20] – Authority vs. Influence[25:18] – Creating a Pocket of Greatness[29:00] – When to Stay or Leave a Role[33:00] – Healthy vs. Unhealthy Ambition[39:00] – Leading Change Without Authority[43:00] – Working Under a High-Profile Leader[47:00] – Final Encouragement & Resources– –Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co. Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark
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    53 mins
  • Kadi Cole on the Women’s XP Group and Developing Female Leaders

    Kadi Cole on the Women’s XP Group and Developing Female Leaders
    Apr 2 2026
    In this episode, Kadi Cole joins the Backstage Pastors™️ to discuss her unexpected journey into ministry and her passion for developing female leaders in the church. She shares how her experience as often the only woman in leadership led to the creation of the Women Executive Pastor (WXP) Network, now supporting hundreds of women in executive roles.Kadi explains the importance of mentorship, coaching, and especially sponsorship—highlighting how women are often overlooked in leadership development due to systemic habits rather than theology. She challenges male leaders to rethink how they view and support female leaders, emphasizing equal access to development resources and opportunities.The conversation also explores the unique challenges women face in leadership, including isolation, lack of role models, and navigating expectations. Kadi encourages churches to intentionally create pathways for women to grow and remain in ministry long-term.Resources Mentioned🗣️Follow Kadi📕Developing Female Leaders by Kadi Cole💻wxpastors.com (Women Executive Pastor Network)💻https://kadicole.com💻https://femalechurchleaders.com🎙️Female Church Leaders Podcast From Our Partners💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org Connect with Phil Taylor✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ Connect with Tyler Drewitz✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.LIKE & SUBSCRIBE📹 ⁠Youtube⁠🍏 ⁠Apple⁠🎤 ⁠SpotifyCHAPTERS[00:45] Introducing Kadi Cole[02:00] An Unlikely Ministry Journey[04:00] Birth of Women Executive Pastors Network[06:00] The Power of Female Community[09:20] Why Women Need Dedicated Spaces[12:40] Supporting Women in Leadership Growth[17:00] Mentorship, Coaching & Sponsorship[24:00] What Male Leaders Often Miss[31:20] Encouragement to Stay in the Calling– –Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.
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    37 mins
  • David Fletcher on Pastoral Compensation

    David Fletcher on Pastoral Compensation
    Mar 18 2026
    In this episode of Backstage Pastors™️ Phil and Tyler sit down with David Fletcher, founder of XPastor.org, one of the most comprehensive resource hubs for executive pastors. David shares the origin story of his work, which began out of a lack of available research and has grown into a platform with thousands of resources and hundreds of thousands of annual users.The conversation explores practical tools available to executive pastors, including free courses, weekly webinars, and a robust salary database built from billions of dollars of church compensation data. David explains how churches can leverage this data for better, more objective compensation decisions and discusses the value of independent compensation studies.David is a wealth of knowledge gleaned from years of serving executive pastors — and from being one.Resources Mentioned💻 ⁠⁠⁠XPastor.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠💲⁠Salary ForecasterFrom Our Partners💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at ⁠⁠https://thechurchhub.org⁠⁠ Connect with Phil Taylor✉️⁠⁠ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠⁠⁠✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠🗣️⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠⁠⁠ 📚⁠⁠ ⁠Books by Phil⁠⁠⁠💻⁠⁠ ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠™️⁠⁠💻⁠⁠⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Tyler Drewitz✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠🗣️⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠⁠⁠💻⁠⁠ ⁠myxp.church⁠⁠⁠💻⁠⁠⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠⁠⁠The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.LIKE & SUBSCRIBE📹⁠⁠ ⁠Youtube⁠⁠⁠🍏⁠⁠ ⁠Apple⁠⁠⁠🎤⁠⁠ ⁠Spotify⁠⁠CHAPTERS01:34 Introducing David Fletcher & XPastor.org07:29 The Origin Story of XPastor10:00 Free Resources for Executive Pastors12:00 Courses, Webinars & Getting Started14:11 Compensation Data & Salary Forecaster17:00 Why Churches Need Compensation Studies23:41 Benefits, Trends & Staffing Insights27:39 The Retirement Crisis for Pastors29:13 Innovation, AI & Leadership Mindset– –Editing and Support by ⁠⁠The Good Podcast Co.⁠⁠
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    38 mins
  • XP Leadership in Unchurched Regions w/ Jeremy Peterson

    XP Leadership in Unchurched Regions w/ Jeremy Peterson
    Mar 4 2026
    In this episode of the Backstage Pastors Podcast™️ Phil and Tyler interview Jeremy Peterson, Executive Pastor at One Church in New Hampshire and a leader involved with the XP Summit. Jeremy shares his ministry journey from student ministry in Texas to leadership roles in multi-site churches and eventually serving in New England—one of the most unchurched regions in the United States. He explains the unique leadership and staffing challenges of ministry in that environment and how his church has responded by developing local leaders.Jeremy discusses the creation of a residency program at One Church to raise up leaders internally, emphasizing hands-on ministry training and leadership development. He also explains the purpose and structure of the XP Summit, a gathering designed specifically for executive pastors to connect, learn, and support each other in ministry leadership.Resources Mentioned🗣️ ⁠XP Summit⁠⛪️ ⁠One Church⁠Unstuck Event: Church Building Masterclass⁠ with Phil TaylorFrom Our Partners💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at ⁠https://thechurchhub.org⁠ Connect with Phil Taylor✉️⁠ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠⁠✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠🗣️⁠ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠⁠ 📚⁠ ⁠Books by Phil⁠⁠💻⁠ ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠™️⁠💻⁠⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠⁠ Connect with Tyler Drewitz✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠🗣️⁠ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠⁠💻⁠ ⁠myxp.church⁠⁠💻⁠⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠⁠The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.LIKE & SUBSCRIBE📹⁠ ⁠Youtube⁠⁠🍏⁠ ⁠Apple⁠⁠🎤⁠ ⁠Spotify⁠CHAPTERS03:00 Why the podcast originally paused five years ago07:00 Podcast swag and upcoming conferences09:30 Introducing guest Jeremy Peterson10:00 Jeremy’s ministry journey from Texas to New England13:00 Ministry challenges in unchurched regions19:00 Building a residency program for leadership development25:00 The story and purpose of the XP Summit34:00 Final reflections and upcoming guests– –Editing and Support by ⁠The Good Podcast Co.⁠
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    38 mins
  • Kyle Nabors on Cultivating a Well-Watered Garden vs. Well-Oiled Machine

    Kyle Nabors on Cultivating a Well-Watered Garden vs. Well-Oiled Machine
    Feb 18 2026
    In this episode, Phil and Tyler sit down with Kyle Nabors, a seasoned executive leader who has served in both large churches and global nonprofits. Kyle shares insights from decades of experience, including time at Kensington Church (a 10,000+ attendee church) and Mercy Ships, and reflects on leadership, culture, trust, and the nuanced role of the executive pastor.One of the central themes is Kyle’s well-known metaphor: the church as a well-watered garden versus a well-oiled machine. While certain systems require precision and predictability (finances, child safety, compliance), much of ministry leadership requires organic flexibility, attentiveness, and faith. Structure must serve mission—not the other way around.Throughout the conversation, you’ll be reminded that effective executive leadership isn’t about control—it’s about calibration. It’s about knowing the “blood type” of the organization, understanding the personality of the lead pastor, and helping clarify direction while cultivating culture.Resources Mentioned🗣️ Follow Kyle⛪️ Ward ChurchUnstuck Event: Church Building Masterclass with Phil TaylorFrom Our Partners💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org Connect with Phil Taylor✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠ 📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠™️💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠ Connect with Tyler Drewitz✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend.LIKE & SUBSCRIBE📹 ⁠Youtube⁠🍏 ⁠Apple⁠🎤 ⁠SpotifyCHAPTERS00:00 – Introduction to Kyle Nabors04:00 – Kyle’s Leadership Journey: Military, Business, Nonprofit & Church09:00 – The Lunch That Sparked a Book11:53 – Structure Must Serve the Mission15:00 – Trust: The Currency of the Executive Pastor21:19 – Backstage Leadership at Kensington Church25:00 – Diagnosing Before Prescribing31:54 – Thriving, Authenticity & Spiritual Health36:00 – Navigating Church vs. Nonprofit Culture43:48 – Return on Investment, Direction & Stewardship– –Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.
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    52 mins