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The B2B Roundtable (hosted by Brian Carroll)

The B2B Roundtable (hosted by Brian Carroll)

By: Brian Carroll
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 The B2B Roundtable gives you practical marketing and sales strategies you can use to fuel growth. Host Brian Carroll sits down with leading GTM experts in B2B marketing and sales to uncover what’s working today — from account-based marketing (ABM) and sales development to content marketing, storytelling, leadership, and research-backed insights.Copyright 2025 markempa Career Success Economics Leadership Management & Leadership Marketing Marketing & Sales
Episodes
  • Why 75% of Buyers Don’t Want Reps and How Framemaking Can Win Them Back (with Brent Adamson)

    Why 75% of Buyers Don’t Want Reps and How Framemaking Can Win Them Back (with Brent Adamson)
    Oct 8 2025
    In a recent Gartner survey, 75% of B2B buyers said they’d prefer a rep-free buying experience. That’s a wake-up call for sales and marketing leaders everywhere. So, is this the end of sales as we know it… or the start of something better? On this episode of the B2B Roundtable Podcast, I sit down with my friend Brent Adamson, co-author of The Challenger Sale and author of the new book The Framemaking Sale. Brent explains why buyer confidence—not more information—is the real barrier to closing big deals today, and how leaders can help their teams become the sellers customers actually want to talk to. Brent Adamson on Framemaking and the Future of Sales Key Takeaways Buyers want confidence, not more information. The real risk isn’t being ignored—it’s being irrelevant.Framemaking is the answer. Instead of persuading, sellers must help buyers frame decisions and build confidence in themselves.Four forces undermine confidence today: decision complexity, information overload, objective misalignment, and outcome uncertainty.Sales and marketing must unite. The mission is to build buyer confidence in themselves—not just in the supplier.AI won’t replace sellers, but it raises the bar. The sellers who thrive will show up as trusted guides and sense-makers. Pull Quotes “It’s not your customer’s confidence in you that matters. It’s their confidence in themselves.” — Brent Adamson “If you could be the one seller your customer actually wants to talk to, that’s an incredible place to be.” — Brent Adamson Guest Bio Brent Adamson is a researcher, speaker, and author best known for co-authoring The Challenger Sale. His new book, The Framemaking Sale, explores how sales professionals can rebuild buyer confidence and create customer interactions that truly add value. Connect with Brent on LinkedIn Get the Book: The Framemaking Sale Full Transcript Brian Carroll: Welcome to the B2B Roundtable Podcast, where we bring together ideas, people, and strategies shaping the future of sales and marketing. Today, I’m joined by my friend Brent Adamson, one of the most influential voices in sales. You may know Brent from his groundbreaking book The Challenger Sale, which reshaped how we think about commercial conversations. I’m excited because we’re talking about his new book, The Framemaking Sale. And it couldn’t come at a more urgent time. In a recent survey, 75% of B2B buyers said they’d prefer to purchase without ever talking to a sales rep. Is this the end of sales as we know it—or could it be the start of something better? Brian Carroll: We’re going to talk about why buyers have lost confidence in sales, what’s driving this shift, what it really means to be a framemaker, how leaders like CMOs and VPs of Sales can build teams customers actually want to talk to, and what the future of selling looks like in an AI-driven world. Brent, you open your book with that stat—75% of B2B buyers would prefer a rep-free buying experience. That’s wild. Brent Adamson: First of all, it’s great to see you, Brian. Thanks for the invite. That statistic comes from Gartner research, one of the last pieces I worked on before leaving in 2022. We asked thousands of B2B buyers: “If you could buy a large complex solution without ever talking to a sales rep, would you prefer that?” Seventy-five percent said yes. Now, that doesn’t mean they actually buy without sellers—it means they’d prefer not to. The data shows a big and growing gap between customer preference and customer reality. That gap represents risk for sellers. Brian Carroll: So it’s not the end of sales—it’s the end of salespeople not adding value. Brent Adamson: Exactly. The question at the heart of this book is simple: What would it take to be the one seller—or the one team—that customers actually do want to talk to? If you can be that person—showing up less like a seller and more like a human—you can differentiate not only from competitors but also from the overwhelming flood of information customers already face. Buyers Don’t Want More Info, They Want Confidence Brian Carroll: What are the ways sellers unintentionally undermine buyer confidence? Brent Adamson: One of the biggest findings is around decision confidence. When customers feel highly confident in their decisions, they are up to 10x more likely to make a high-quality, low-regret purchase. But most sales and marketing teams focus on building confidence in the supplier— “trust us, our brand, our product.” What actually matters more is the buyer’s confidence in themselves. The real opportunity is helping customers feel confident in the questions they’re asking, the research they’ve done, their alignment as a team, and their ability to execute. That’s what Framemaking is all about. Brian Carroll: Can you define Framemaking? How is it different from Challenger Selling? Brent Adamson: Framemaking is about creating ...
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    43 mins
  • Brand Activism Isn’t a Campaign. It’s a Company Decision (Podcast with Philip Kotler)

    Brand Activism Isn’t a Campaign. It’s a Company Decision (Podcast with Philip Kotler)
    May 24 2021
    Customers care more about the values of the companies they buy from than ever before. That includes B2B buyers, even when they pretend it doesn’t. It’s not just about what you sell. Buyers want to know what kind of company you are. What you protect. What you tolerate. What you’re willing to be held accountable for. That’s why I interviewed Dr. Philip Kotler, often called the “father of modern marketing,” and co-author of Brand Activism: From Purpose to Action, about what brand activism actually is and why so many companies get it wrong. Author’s note: This transcript is edited for clarity and readability. Quick Answer: What Is Brand Activism? Brand activism is when a company publicly commits to values and causes beyond selling products, and backs that commitment with real actions. It’s not a “purpose statement.” It’s not a rebrand. It’s not a social post. Brand activism only works when leadership owns it, operations support it, and customers can see receipts. Key Takeaways Brand activism is a business decision, not a marketing tactic.Buyers are looking for signals of integrity, not slogans.Purpose without action becomes brand risk.B2B isn’t exempt. It’s just slower to admit this matters.“Greenwashing” (or any version of performative values) erodes trust faster than silence. Why This Matters in Modern GTM In complex B2B, buyers don’t just evaluate your product. They evaluate the risk of tying their career to your company. So they look for signals: Do you behave consistently, or do you “pivot” values when it’s convenient?Do you treat employees and customers like humans, or like inputs?Do you stand for anything that costs you something? Brand activism sits inside the buyer’s trust filter. Not because buyers are idealists, but because they’re risk managers. The Interview Brian: To start, what is brand activism? Dr. Kotler: Brand activism is a movement toward making a brand do more than tout the virtues of a product or service. It identifies values that the company has and cares about. For example, The Body Shop under Anita Roddick was not only selling skincare products. It was fighting for animal rights, civil rights, fair trade, and environmental protection. More and more consumers want to know what kind of company this is and what it cares about. Our society is saddled with many problems. Does the company care about any of these problems, or does it just think it’s supposed to make money? An increasing number of companies want an identity that goes beyond making products and services. That is what we call brand activism: the brand connecting with causes. Why Kotler Wrote Brand Activism Brian: Why write this book now? Dr. Kotler: If you look at barometers like the Edelman Trust Barometer, trust in society has been falling. As a result, companies are not going to be trusted either. Companies ought to fight against bad companies rather than stand near them or be part of them. The reputation a company has can be whatever happens through its actions, or it can be designed better. Consciously better. The Evolution of Branding: From Products to Values Kotler described brand development as a series of stages, moving from product-driven to values-driven. Brands evolved like this: Stage 1: Product identification (the brand name as a label)Stage 2: Positioning (lowest price, family entertainment, highest quality)Stage 3: Company qualities (integrity, innovation, multi-trait reputation)Stage 4: Corporate social responsibility (supporting a cause)Stage 5: Brand activism (a defined stand with real commitment) Brand activism, in his view, is one of the latest stages of this evolution. Translation: you can’t fake your way into stage five with stage two tools. How Customer Expectations Changed Brian: What’s driving brand activism? Dr. Kotler: Customers have concerns about immigration, ethics, gun control, debt, and education failure. These social issues become the ground out of which brand activism becomes essential. An increasing number of people argue that companies do not have the right to be silent about these issues. They want companies to show they care about more than making money. Is Brand Activism Different in B2B? Brian: Do you see a difference between B2B and B2C companies? Dr. Kotler: No, I don’t see a difference. Both will want reputations that go beyond making products. There are many B2B and B2C companies in the list of brand-active companies. Salesforce is a good example. Marc Benioff has been a pioneer in this area, including actions around homelessness and affordable housing in San Francisco. B2B companies have been slower as marketers. Most modern marketing came first from the consumer side. But B2B companies are close to their customers. Through their salesforce, they know buyers and what they’re like. There can be less “need” for B2B to signal values publicly because values show up in relationship and reputation anyway. My take: that’s true...
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    27 mins
  • Mean people suck in marketing and what to do about it with Michael Brenner

    Mean people suck in marketing and what to do about it with Michael Brenner
    Nov 7 2019
    Why does most marketing stink? According to Michael Brenner, “Most of the marketing that we do that stinks and doesn’t work is that some executive with a big ego asked us to do it.” On top of that, marketers are not in a happy place. According to MarketingProfs 2019 Marketer Happiness Report, “Only 10% of marketers say they were very fulfilled in their work.” The report looked at the dimensions of feeling fulfilled, valued, and energized by the work, that our work is impactful, and engaged. That’s why I interviewed Michael Brenner (@BrennerMichael), the CEO of Marketing Insider Group to talk about his new book Mean People Suck. We need more empathy inside our companies to empathize more with our customers. Michael Brenner states, “The most counter-intuitive secret to success in business and life is empathy.” I’m excited to share his thoughts on empathy with you. In this interview, you’ll learn about asking what’s in it for the customer, rethinking your organizational chart, and making the changes you need to make to be more successful today. Why did you write Mean People Suck? Michael: Again, I must give you credit. You were out in front of this empathy topic in marketing. I think long before me. Kudos to you. It just took me a little longer, but mainly as a content marketer and as a former internal corporate marketer, I reached out to folks that I know that are still living and breathing corporate marketing struggles every day. I found a couple of things, the number one being that marketers were miserable. It’s like that scene from, I think it’s Poltergeist where the obsessed woman has help written on her. Was it Poltergeist? Anyway, there was a woman possessed, and the words help showed up on her stomach because I feel like a lot of internal corporate marketers feel that way. They’re miserable. Why are marketers so miserable? Michael: When you get down to it, I’ve found that it’s mainly because they hate their boss. They don’t love the corporate culture. They’re not happy with what they’re being asked to do. They feel they don’t have an impact. When I looked at why content marketing programs aren’t successful, the answer superficially was content ROI. What’s the ROI of content? And if you don’t mind me, I’m not being promotional, but I wrote a book called The Content Formula, All About Content Marketing ROI. And when I went back to folks I sent the book to, but I found that it wasn’t enough. The math isn’t enough to get people over the challenges that we’re facing and how to do marketing that doesn’t suck. Most marketing stinks for this reason Michael: The answer is that I wrote the book is that most of the marketing that we do that stinks and doesn’t work, because some executive with a big ego asked us to do it. Executives love seeing logos on stadiums, and they love seeing Super Bowl ads, and all the things that we make fun of marketing about primarily come from a request from sales or marketing or product people. And the companies where content marketing is successful or marketers are happy are making an impact because there’s a culture of empathy. Their cultures don’t suck. The companies don’t suck. The leaders don’t suck. That’s why I wrote the book. Maybe a long-winded explanation, but that’s why. Why empathy is more important now Brian: It’s hard for marketers to care about the customer when they don’t feel cared about too. They don’t feel safe. They’re anxious, or they’re frustrated, or they’re overwhelmed. You also talked about empathy. Why does empathy matter, especially to marketers and does it lead to better results? Michael: Yeah, One of the stories that I tell in the book, the very first corporate book that I read, and I have to give credit to the former CEO at Nielsen, my first company who made most of us in the company read the book. And I was like, “Oh, here we go. And I read the book. I was like,” Wow, this is actually really pretty cool.” It’s called the Service Profit Chain. I write a lot about it. The book isn’t talked about much, but the premise is simple. Three or four Harvard business review professors got together, and they said, wait for a second, we’ve seen this correlation between engaged employees are happy employees, happy customers, and higher stock prices more satisfied stock investors. They did some actual research and found that where there’s employee engagement, there is customer loyalty. Where there’s customer loyalty, there’s higher spend rates and retention and higher stock prices. The counter-intuitive secret to success Michael: The key to those environments, those cultures, those companies where there were happy employees, was empathy. The company’s purpose was to make their employees happy because they knew happy employees created delighted customers. It’s totally intuitive, and yet it’s counterintuitive. That’s one of the reasons we reconnected. ...
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    19 mins
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