Kelli Arena spent her career at CNN telling the public what powerful people would rather keep quiet. She covered the Justice Department, won an Emmy, and reported the Moussaoui trial, the only 9/11 case tried in an American civilian courtroom.

After Kelli left journalism, she went into another form of public service, serving as Chief of Communications for the National Security Agency, spending eight years helping the Agency find its voice.

Kelli has remade herself across four worlds: journalism, academia, government, and now the nonprofit sector, where she just became President and CEO of the National Cryptologic Foundation.

A few things she gets into, worth your time even if you never press play:

She took six months of maternity leave, three separate times, as an on-air correspondent. Everyone said it would end her career. It didn't. Younger women in the newsroom started thanking her, because she'd quietly given them permission.

She earned back America's trust at the NSA the boring way: Through Consistency. Relationships. A rule that every reporter got a callback within 30 minutes, even when the answer was "no comment."

And her advice for anyone starting over: "Listen more than you speak. Every single time I have listened to others before making a decision, it has been a better decision."

0:00:00 The Stumble that nearly ended my career

0:01:33 Meet Kelli Arena

0:02:52 A new chapter: President and CEO of the National Cryptologic Foundation

0:03:25 What cryptology is, and 500,000 open cyber jobs

0:05:30 AI's impact “can't be overstated”

0:07:30 Who gets displaced, and how we reskill them

0:08:40 Getting cyber smart as citizens

0:10:05 Becoming CNN's justice correspondent, then 9/11

0:12:05 Six months of leave, and the warnings that proved false

0:15:00 A day in the life: news as the ultimate team sport

0:18:10 Inside the Moussaoui trial

0:21:45 “I am Al Qaeda”: chaos in the courtroom

0:23:35 Why the jury chose life over death

0:25:16 Laid off: the 2009 budget cuts

0:27:25 Reinvention: teaching journalists to hold power accountable

0:30:15 The women who risked everything just to drive

0:32:50 Advice to young reporters in a hostile climate

0:35:20 A story Jonathan had never told on air

0:38:05 Inside the NSA: secrecy meets a journalist

0:42:00 Taking “no such agency” public

0:43:45 Re-earning America's trust after Snowden

0:48:00 Knowing when it's time to leave

0:49:30 What she's most proud of

0:51:30 Myron Kandel and the bag of work clothes

0:55:10 The reinvention lesson: listen more than you speak

New here? Follow Stumbling Blocks so you don't miss what's next. A quick review is the best way to help other leaders find the show.

Shalene Gupta, staff editor for Fast Company's Work Life and Leadership section, interviewed 35 middle managers at some of the biggest companies in the world for her piece "The Middle Manager's AI Survival Guide." What she found is that the contradictory headlines about AI at work aren't actually contradictory. There are two different worlds, and which one you're working in makes a world of difference.

One idea sits under all of it, and it matches what I find in my own work. People will walk through almost any change, AI included, when they trust that their leader has their back.

In this episode:

0:00:00 The question every manager is asking

0:01:20 The one-line takeaway from the AI Survival Guide

0:02:30 Two universes: the AI race vs. where most of us work

0:04:53 Ethan at Meta: "If you think they'll replace you, they probably will"

0:06:07 The math: a person vs. $200 to $500 a month in tokens

0:07:36 ClickUp's "100x more productive" memo

0:08:40 Are we weighing the human cost? (Dimon at Davos)

0:09:49 What it feels like to be a middle manager today

0:11:48 What the excited managers had in common (and a Georgia-Pacific surprise)

0:14:10 Advice for leaders taking teams through AI

0:16:26 Advice for the rest of us

0:17:07 My takeaway, and a look at next week

Links:

"The Middle Manager's AI Survival Guide" (Fast Company): https://www.fastcompany.com/91531056/the-middle-managers-ai-survival-guide

The Power of Trust, by Sandra Sucher and Shalene Gupta: https://amzn.to/4xdcxUK

The Cycle, by Shalene Gupta: https://www.amazon.com/Cycle-Confronting-Pain-Periods-PMDD/dp/1250882893

Shalene Gupta: https://shalenegupta.com

Shalene Gupta is the staff editor for Fast Company's Work Life and Leadership section, co-author of The Power of Trust with Harvard's Sandra Sucher, and author of The Cycle.

Stumbling Blocks: How Great Leaders Are Made is hosted by
Jonathan Block, founder of Block Leadership Group, recorded in the Treehouse Studio in Georgia.

If this was worth your time, follow the show and leave a review. It's the best way to help other leaders find it.

Next week: Retired Vice Admiral Mark Harnitchek, who led the Defense Logistics Agency, on loss, grief, and leadership as a mirror. I'll see you then on The Stumble.

Dana Perino's new book is called Purple State. It's a political romance novel set in a gerrymandered Wisconsin district, about three young women who discover that love and friendship don't stop at party lines.

Coming from the 26th White House Press Secretary and co-host of The Five on Fox News (the most-watched show on cable news!), it's a book worth paying attention to. Especially as we find ourselves more divided than any time in recent history.

Dana talks about the personal story behind the book: The time a dear friend said, "Do not pass up the chance to be loved." She almost didn't listen.

Dana tells the story of sitting in the Oval Office with President Bush just before walking out to face a press corps hungry over a tell-all memoir from her predecessor. She was furious on his behalf. He told her something about forgiveness that changed her.

Purple State is out now. Pick it up today here:* https://amzn.to/4tRzGcZ

CHAPTER MARKERS

0:00:00 Welcome to the Treehouse Studio

0:01:13 The 2007 Phone Call

0:02:35 Life After the White House

0:04:58 Purple State: The Book

0:06:59 Why I Wrote a Novel

0:10:42 Wearing Your Politics Lightly

0:12:57 The Oval Office and the Forgiveness Lesson

0:15:52 68% of Young People Won't Date Across Party Lines

0:17:29 Do Not Pass Up the Chance to Be Loved

0:19:00 Peter, the Proposal, and the Open-Ended Ticket

0:20:05 Dinner With the Queen's Staff

0:21:46 There Is Freedom in Being Disciplined

0:23:41 Closing Thoughts on Purple State

0:24:49 Outro

KEYWORDS / TAGS

Dana Perino, Purple State, leadership, Fox News, The Five, White House Press Secretary, forgiveness, discipline, political fiction, women in leadership, Minute Mentoring, President Bush, Jonathan Block, Stumbling Blocks, career resilience, love, faith

*Amazon affiliates receive a small commission from Amazon for purchases made through this link. Commissions do not impact editorial decisions.

My parents were visiting me the day I interviewed Sue Gordon, former Deputy Director of National Intelligence. So they joined me in the Treehouse Studio to say a quick hello to her.

Here's their conversation.

Sue Gordon once oversaw 100,000 women and men of the U.S. intelligence community as Deputy Director of National Intelligence, the number two role in American spycraft.

She briefed Presidents Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton, W Bush, Obama, and Trump. She managed a $100 billion budget.

And in August 2019, she handed Vice President Pence her resignation letter with a handwritten note: "I offer this letter as an act of respect and patriotism, not preference. You should have your team. Godspeed, Sue."

Since then, life has come at her hard. Both parents died. Her husband Jim, the love of her life for 43 years, died unexpectedly. She has faced two rounds with cancer, the second one far more deadly than the first.

And she says she's the most blessed woman in the world.

In this conversation, Sue goes deep on:

• The U.S. strikes on Iran and what she sees that most Americans don't
• What the Epstein files actually reveal about how power protects itself
• Why she almost ran for President
• Why she quit the CIA with two weeks' notice to be a better mom
• How the Trump administration publicly excoriated a 40-year career civil servant, and what she chose to do instead of fighting back
• Why she thinks America needs to fix a system the Founders never designed for this much speed
• What she wants every woman in a man's world to know, and what she wants the good men to finally do about it
• The doorways of grief, and how to move through them
  

This is Sue Gordon in full: the spy, the mom, the widow, the patient, the patriot. Unfiltered. Funny. Occasionally heartbreaking. Always worth your time.

Find her podcast, Understandable Insights here:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/understandable-insights-information-to-intelligence/id1827249845

Books and Works Mentioned:

A Severe Mercy

The Price We Pay

An Immense Journey

Sue's Resignation Letter

If this episode is worthy of your time, please share it and leave a review. It's how we grow.

A few times during my two-part interview with Judge and Rebecca Gonzales, they turned the tables on me. They listened. And they drew three stories out of me that I've rarely shared.

The first is a story that never made it into the main episodes: the Oval Office advice I didn't want that... changed my life.

The second is about what happens when your Quaker mother and your Jewish father sit down together at Hanukkah.

The third is about what shaped my decision to work for Attorney General Gonzales as a political appointee.

If you haven't heard Parts One and Two yet, start there. This bonus episode will mean more after you've heard their full story.

Content warning: Like part 1, this episode touches on childhood trauma and may not be suitable for all listeners.

If you'd like to support the show, please follow Stumbling Blocks on your favorite podcast app and leave a review. It's the best way to help other leaders like you.

Part 2 of this exclusive conversation with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and his wife Rebecca. It is a conversation about love, political betrayal, faith, and what it means to keep going when the wilderness feels endless.

Judge Gonzales describes the political firestorm that ended his time as the nation's top law enforcement officer.

What followed were years Rebecca calls "the wilderness." The phone stopped ringing. Friends vanished. Job opportunities disappeared. And the pain was so deep they sat side by side in silence, because words wouldn't come.

But strangers showed up in ways you won't expect. And President Bush wrote a handwritten note that says something every leader needs to hear.

And eventually, it becomes clear where home is.

It's a political love story unlike any you've heard before.

If you missed Part 1, start there first: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/exclusive-attorney-general-alberto-gonzales-becky-gonzales/id1849573843?i=1000757588087

Next episode: Sue Gordon, 30-year CIA veteran and former Deputy Director of National Intelligence.

0:00:00 Introduction & Part 1 Recap
0:03:30 The U.S. Attorney Scandal
0:07:45 "People Will Do Anything to Get Power"
0:09:50 President Bush Defends His Attorney General
0:11:45 The Call to Resign
0:15:30 The Phone Stopped Ringing
0:18:00 "We're Rich in Love"
0:22:15 President Bush's Handwritten Letter
0:27:30 The Wilderness Years
0:34:15 "It's Got to Work Out"
0:40:50 Finding Home in Nashville
0:45:35 Advice for Your Own Wilderness
0:51:00 Outro & Next Episode Preview

TAGS/KEYWORDS:

leadership, resilience, Attorney General, Alberto Gonzales, George W. Bush, public service, marriage, faith, political crisis, Washington DC, wilderness, Belmont University, trust, Rebecca Gonzales

Excerpts from Attorney General Gonzales and Rebecca Gonzales's interview with Stumbling Blocks on ICE Actions, Immigration, and the Epstein Files

Excerpted Quotes from Attorney General Gonzales On ICE Actions and Immigration

Based on what I've observed… it seems like we're going through an unprecedented, dangerous time. I worry about what's going on in our country, and I think a lot of Americans are worried about it.

The way that we're enforcing immigration today, to me, it sends a terrible message, not just to the American people. It sends a terrible message to people around the world, in terms of what America is today, as opposed to…talking about the value of immigrants and how much they've contributed and why we as a country are stronger and better because we have welcomed immigrants and they're part of the fabric of our society. I don't think that message is out there anymore, and I think that really does sadden me.

I think that makes America weaker. I really do. And I think it emboldens our enemies.

Hopefully the courts and hopefully Congress will take action and address it.

___________________________
Excerpted Quotes from Attorney General Gonzales On the Epstein Files

I think this whole episode is embarrassing. I think it's an embarrassment to this Administration, to the Department of Justice, a complete failure of the Department to abide by the law. That's the role of the Department of Justice — to enforce the law. And here we have a Department that's not doing that.

But what appears to be, in some cases, selective redactions and the selective release of documents, drip, drip, drip process, it sends a terrible message.

And I think it's legitimate for the American people to wonder, “what are you hiding?”

It hurts the image of America, I think, around the world.

The way that this has been handled from the very beginning has been a disaster. For the American people, certainly for this Administration, and for the victims.