In this episode of Proc n Roll, Zach and Conrad sit down with Joël Collin-Demers, the digital procurement mentor and author of the Pure Procurement newsletter. Joël unpacks the new "buy-to-build" paradigm in procurement technology, explaining how to successfully blend pre-packaged software suites with customizable, AI-driven toolboxes. From deep dives into the Model Context Protocol (MCP) to the urgent need for technical talent within sourcing teams, this conversation is a masterclass in modernizing your tech stack.Timestamps:(01:15) - Introduction of Joël Collin-Demers and his background in digital procurement. (02:56) - Defining the "Buy-to-Build" concept in procurement technology. (06:11) - The risks of using AI to code from scratch and the importance of software architecture.(07:25) - History repeating itself: Comparing modern configurable suites to legacy procurement software promises.(09:41) - Why procurement still needs business analysts and the role of the Digital Procurement Lead.(11:37) - The argument for hiring technical engineers directly into procurement teams.(14:21) - Practical tips for smaller organizations: Leveraging IT sourcing roles and fractional digital leads.(17:50) - Moving the conversation to AI Agents: Should you build or buy them?.(18:48) - Joël’s definition of an agent and deciding where an agent should reside based on cross-functional needs.(22:22) - Managing AI context: The importance of deterministic business rules over statistical guessing. (30:48) - AI vs. the 150-page procurement policy and managing AI hallucinations.(33:27) - Re-evaluating the tech stack: How to handle high-risk software decisions today.(36:03) - Treating ProcureTech as a strategic category and the shift away from massive IT business cases.(40:01) - Explaining the Model Context Protocol (MCP) using a restaurant menu analogy.(42:58) - Addressing security, data governance, and permissions when using MCP.(45:22) - Analyzing SAP's controversial API policy and the "App Store" approach to data security. (47:45) - Final practical tips: Why procurement leaders need to start experimenting with AI immediately.About Proc N Roll:

Welcome to Proc n Roll, the ultimate podcast for procurement, supply chain, and AI! Hosted by Conrad Smith, Zachary Bachir, and Natasha Gurevich, we cut through the corporate noise to deliver honest, hype-free conversations with top industry leaders. From AI and tech stack strategies to career growth, we give you the tactical insights you need to level up. Subscribe and join the jam session!

In this jam session of Proc n Roll, Conrad sits down with Limor David-Sternfeld, a seasoned executive with a fascinating career journey that spans from the defense industry to leading global sourcing and procurement in the Bay Area's big tech sector. Limor shares her practical insights on navigating unfamiliar sourcing categories, the changing dynamics of enterprise tech, and what it truly means to be a courageous leader.

Whether you are an individual contributor looking to level up your stakeholder relationships or a CPO evaluating your next major software investment, this episode is packed with actionable advice.

Topics Discussed in This Episode:

• The Accidental Career Path: How a job in defense procurement derailed an accounting career and sparked a lifelong passion for sourcing and procurement.
• The "Figure It Out" Mentality: Why curiosity, dedicated research, and cultural tenacity are your best tools when tackling brand-new procurement categories and challenges.
• Agents vs. Humans: A look at the future of complex enterprise negotiations, and why the most strategic relationships will still require humans, at least for now.
• Tech Stack Warnings: Why procurement organizations should be highly cautious about locking into long-term tech arrangements while the AI landscape is shifting so rapidly.
• The Bravery of Leadership: How to lead by example, have the hard conversations, and show up with confidence to support your team.
• Slashing Cycle Times: The urgency of incorporating AI into your workflows to reduce repetitive tasks before your stakeholders lose patience.

About Proc n Roll

Welcome to Proc n Roll, your guide to practical procurement! Hosted by industry veterans Conrad, Natasha, and Zachary, we dive deep into the strategies, operating models, and emerging technologies shaping the future of supply chain and procurement. Whether you are looking to navigate the AI tech boom, rethink your category management, or just survive your next boardroom meeting, the "three amigos" are here to break down the complex topics into actionable, practical insights. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more procurement insights!

In this week's Proc n Roll, the trio tackles a billion-dollar boardroom debate: Who exactly owns AI in the enterprise? With 87% of companies increasing AI budgets by 2026, but only 14% having a clear C-suite owner, the lack of defined leadership is creating uncertainty.

Conrad, Natasha, and Zachary debate the tension between decentralized, bottom-up innovation and top-down corporate governance. They explore the dangers of "shadow AI," why token consumption is about to become your company's biggest expense, and how to divide AI responsibilities across the CISO, Tech, and Procurement teams.

Timestamps

(00:00:00) - Cold Open: The billion-dollar tug of war over AI ownership, the risk of data leaks, and token consumption costs.

(00:01:21) - Episode Intro: Welcome to Proc n Roll with the "Three Amigos" (Conrad, Natasha, and Zachary).

(00:02:06) - The Main Topic: Who owns AI in the enterprise when 87% of companies have increased budgets but only 14% have a clear owner?

(00:02:47) - Zachary's View (Decentralization): Why everyone should own AI and why innovation must come from the people doing the job today.

(00:06:05) - Natasha's View (Centralization): The need for compliance, keeping the enterprise in sync, and why AI strategy should fall under a Chief Transformation Officer or CPO.

(00:08:57) - The "Garage" Innovators: Zachary and Conrad discuss how the best AI users are experimenting off corporate machines using frontier models.

(00:11:41) - Accountability in AI: Treating AI outputs with the same ownership expectations as building an Excel model or PowerPoint presentation.

(00:14:34) - The Danger of Toy Agents: Natasha argues that building agents without a holistic enterprise strategy creates disconnected "toys" rather than solutions.

(00:17:25) - Personal Productivity vs. Platform Execution: Zachary breaks down the difference between using personal prompts and deploying integrated agents on enterprise platforms.

(00:21:49) - The Token Cost Crisis: Zachary predicts AI token consumption will become the biggest expense line for companies and why procurement must treat it like software asset management.

(00:27:39) - Defining Cross-Functional Roles: The hosts agree that the CISO owns security, Procurement owns cost, and Tech owns the overarching strategy.

(00:30:57) - The Policy Dilemma: The struggle to define who writes the AI guidelines without stifling innovation.

(00:33:42) - The Inevitable Data Leak: Natasha predicts a major corporate data spill caused by rogue employees building shadow AI.

(00:38:39) - Shadow AI & Swivel-Chairing: Conrad explains how employees are using external devices to bypass corporate AI restrictions for tasks like "should-cost" analysis.

(00:43:01) - Episode Wrap-up: Final thoughts on the necessity of cross-functional collaboration to navigate enterprise AI.

About Proc n Roll

Welcome to Proc n Roll, your guide to practical procurement! Hosted by industry veterans Conrad, Natasha, and Zachary, we dive deep into the strategies, operating models, and emerging technologies shaping the future of supply chain and procurement. Whether you are looking to navigate the AI tech boom, rethink your category management, or just survive your next boardroom meeting, the "three amigos" are here to break down the complex topics into actionable, practical insights. Don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more procurement insights!

In this week's Proc n Roll, we are joined by procurement legend John Dixon, whose 40-year career includes serving as Chief Procurement Officer for global giants like AstraZeneca, GSK, Diageo, BP, and Rolls-Royce.

John drops some serious truth bombs about the current state of our industry. He explains why procurement is facing a "perfect storm" of risk, cost, and AI, and why leaders need to completely drop the cliché of asking for a "seat at the table". Instead, he breaks down how to actually earn credibility by speaking the business's language, stopping the endless fights with the CFO over cost savings, and establishing simple, effective baselines. Finally, John issues a warning about the saturated procurement tech landscape —urging leaders to engage in "discretionary learning" so they truly understand AI rather than blindly buying platforms.

Timestamps

(00:50) – Intro: Welcome John Dixon, 40-Year Procurement Veteran & Global CPO(02:10) – The "Perfect Storm": Why Procurement is at an Inflection Point(03:55) – The Myth of the "Seat at the Table" & Earning Real Credibility(07:13) – Clashing with the CFO: Savings vs. True Business Value(10:53) – How to Establish Simple Rules and Baselines with Finance(19:04) – Moving from Tactical Buyers to Strategic Ecosystem Managers(20:28) – The Power of Speaking Their Language: Hiring Chemists to Buy Test Tubes(25:14) – Aligning Procurement's Value Proposition with Business Goals(33:13) – Category Strategy: Your Ultimate Tool to Learn the Business(39:01) – Navigating a Saturated Procurement Tech Landscape(42:14) – Why Procurement Must "Leapfrog" in Technology Investments(46:01) – "Discretionary Learning": Why CPOs Cannot Abdicate Tech Decisions(49:49) – Looking Back: John's First CPO Role and Greatest Turning Point

About Proc n Roll

Proc n Roll is your guide to practical procurement. Join industry veterans Conrad, Zach, and Natasha as we tackle real-world challenges for procurement leaders. From building agile operating models to leveraging the latest AI and data strategies, we bring you no-nonsense, actionable insights to help you transform your organization.

You think you know your spend? Natasha Gurevich once found a company with 57 separate contracts with the same hotel chain — because nobody had visibility across entities.

In this Proc N Roll: Track, Conrad Smith breaks down the simplest data model every procurement team needs (transactions → suppliers → cost centers), Natasha reveals how fragmented visibility creates hidden waste, and together they introduce 3D Segmentation — evaluating suppliers across spend, risk, AND business criticality instead of just dollars. Natasha also shares how partnering with Legal on a volume-vs-value analysis freed up massive resources: 80% of contracts were under $150K and didn't need the full treatment.

This Track is pulled from https://open.spotify.com/episode/0Vz93Umri8VZSoA4nbKZ2G?si=eLBKlK2EQMCso6jNNclLAw

About Proc N Roll:Your guide to practical procurement, where we make procurement rock and roll. Hosted by Conrad Smith (Founder of Graphite Connect, former CPO at Adobe, and Intel), Natasha Gurevich (former CPO at Nike, Salesforce, McKesson, and IBM), and Zachary Bachir. Three procurement veterans with almost 70 years of combined practical experience, unpacking the trends, skills, and real-world lessons that shape the profession.

In this episode of Proc N Roll, the "Three Amigos" reunite to tackle the wild frontier of AI in the workplace before diving deep into the architecture of procurement operating models.

Are AI tools "employees" or just "agents"? The trio discusses the clash between tech developers and HR departments, and Conrad introduces us to James. his multilingual, highly efficient AI Chief of Staff who manages his calendar, tracks meeting action items, and holds the team accountable.In the second half of the episode, the conversation shifts to the blueprint of business: the procurement operating model. Zach and Natasha share their proven frameworks for structuring, documenting, and executing a winning model. Whether your organization needs to be centralized, center-led, or decentralized, this episode provides the practical steps you need to align your procurement structure with your ultimate business goals, and even touches on how to build a "digital twin" of your procurement workforce!

Catch up on the Operating Model subject:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4lpDVChcoaCLtbsVWxYJsE?si=hdp4-qlzRtCQ-tzEbwjwkg

https://open.spotify.com/episode/3ZMyZqSVAQx9IoipQzfemS?si=5mM11orpRZGf6YqU2d9s6w

Timestamps

(01:16) – Welcome Back: The Procurement BFFs Reunite

(01:29) – Agents vs. Employees: The HR and Tech Divide

(03:58) – Meet James: Conrad's AI Chief of Staff

(07:39) – The Meeting Debate: AI Note-Takers vs. Handwritten Notes

(11:18) – The End of Self-Service: How AI is Bringing Back Full-Service Support

(15:22) – AI Security, Enterprise Guardrails, and the Mac Mini Strategy

(18:30) – The Blueprint: Transitioning to Procurement Operating Models

(20:51) – Operating Model Archetypes: Centralized, Center-Led, and Decentralized

(30:02) – The Future: Building a "Digital Twin" of Your Procurement Org

(35:45) – From Ingredients to Blueprint: How to Document Your Model

(37:41) – The "Factory of Ideas": Natasha’s Category Management Framework

(47:04) – Final Advice for CPOs: Where to Start Designing Your Model

About Proc n Roll

Proc n Roll is your guide to practical procurement. Join industry veterans Conrad, Zach, and Natasha as we tackle real-world challenges for procurement leaders. From building agile operating models to leveraging the latest AI and data strategies, we bring you no-nonsense, actionable insights to help you transform your organization.

The procurement talent crisis isn't a hiring problem — it's a development problem.

In this Proc N Roll: Track, Natasha Gurevich argues that as automation replaces purchasing tasks, leaders can't expect their teams to instantly become strategic thinkers. You have to build that muscle from within. She introduces the "work romance" model: pair experienced Gen X leaders who understand the business problems with Gen Z employees who grew up with tech. Hand them a complex challenge with zero instructions — and watch them solve it in two weeks. Conrad Smith pushes leaders to stop watching demos and get their hands dirty in the actual tools.

This Track is pulled from https://open.spotify.com/episode/4MNArtXXGJwUrPykWaxtcc?si=SdaicJUyQLaNt1gnxQ3BJA

About Proc N Roll:Your guide to practical procurement, where we make procurement rock and roll. Hosted by Conrad Smith (Founder of Graphite Connect, former CPO at Adobe, and Intel), Natasha Gurevich (former CPO at Nike, Salesforce, McKesson, and IBM), and Zachary Bachir. Three procurement veterans with almost 70 years of combined practical experience, unpacking the trends, skills, and real-world lessons that shape the profession.

Every procurement professional has met that stakeholder — the one who says "we're fine, thanks" and locks the door.

In this Proc N Roll: Track, Natasha Gurevich shares the exact playbook she used to break into one of procurement's hardest categories: marketing. Step one: stop threatening an RFP and start sending a one-page market intel newsletter. Step two: show them the supplier pie chart they've never seen — 4,000 suppliers, 10 of them doing 80% of the work. Conrad Smith adds a reframe from Google's procurement model and delivers one of the best analogies in the series: "It's almost impossible not to love somebody that loves your kids."

This Track is pulled from https://open.spotify.com/episode/6nXrAVjJUnjBxdpTQrXaVF?si=XP_TfoImTQuAaTsDIwQe6w

About Proc N Roll:Your guide to practical procurement, where we make procurement rock and roll.Hosted by Conrad Smith (Founder of Graphite Connect, former CPO at Adobe, and Intel), Natasha Gurevich (former CPO at Nike, Salesforce, McKesson, and IBM), and Zachary Bachir. Three procurement veterans with almost 70 years of combined practical experience, unpacking the trends, skills, and real-world lessons that shape the profession.