In part 2 of their conversation with Jim Hudson, Secretary of Arkansas Dept of Finance & Administration, April and John explore how Jim leads his team in these polarized times, manages risk, integrates faith and integrity into public service, and finds hope amid division. Jim explores how leadership in government requires balancing experimentation with accountability, explaining how his team tests new processes, learns from early setbacks, and weighs financial investments against the real costs inefficiency imposes on taxpayers. He describes a service-oriented leadership style built on setting clear priorities, trusting teams to execute, and remaining visible during demanding periods, while emphasizing that respectful communication, active listening, and humility are essential when navigating political disagreements and policy debates. Jim also reflects on aligning personal convictions with organizational leadership, encouraging open internal debate while distinguishing deeply held principles from personal opinions. Connecting faith, character, and coaching to effective leadership, he discusses the major challenges facing Arkansas—such as poverty, educational outcomes, and rural population decline—while expressing optimism about economic growth in parts of the state and urging emerging leaders to focus on personal development, lifelong learning, and appreciation for the often-unseen contributions of public servants.

On The Other Hand podcast co-host April Chatham-Carpenter and guest co-host John O’Brien have a conversation with Jim Hudson, Secretary of the Arkansas Department of Finance and Administration, where he oversees multiple divisions and works with a wide range of stakeholders. In Part 1 of the interview, Jim describes his leadership journey, values, and consultative approach to mission-driven public service. Jim reflects on his journey from vocational ministry to public service, describing how a sense of calling guided him into his current role. He credits Governor Sanders’ leadership with a focus on individual stories, improved public services, and a refusal to accept mediocrity, while outlining his own leadership approach as one centered on collaboration, inspiration, and trust rather than micromanagement. Drawing on his interdisciplinary background in political science, law, leadership, and divinity, Jim explains how humility, appreciation for present responsibilities, and thoughtful communication shape his decision-making. Jim emphasizes that effective leadership in government requires balancing the risks of action and inaction and taking carefully considered risks in pursuit of meaningful improvement.

In this 3rd and final part of April and Glen’s conversation with Presidential Scholars co-director Mike Hemphill, Mike reflects on the power of courageous leadership rooted in authentic relationships. He describes examples such as those between U.S. senators David Pryor and Dan Quayle, who prioritized their relationship and shared values over a political issue. He also cited the navigating of political divides between local Arkansas leaders, as well as his mediation work between Little Rock and North Little Rock, showing how honest listening and human connection can solve real problems. Mike also highlights the hopeful, hands‑on collaboration he sees through the Clinton School’s community-focused faculty, reminding us that while technology can help, meaningful progress still depends on personal engagement and mindful communication.

In this second part of our On The Other Hand conversation with Dr. Mike Hemphill, Co-director of the Presidential Leadership Scholars program, April and Glen explore the PLS program, how their students are trained in the "laboratory" environment they provide, and also how bridging divides can be accomplished through good leadership. Mike digs into how we make sense of the world—and of each other—when facts, stories, and values collide. He also explains why storytelling can be such a powerful way to build understanding across political divides. Participants in the PLS Program often grow by widening their perspective, forming relationships across differences, and reflecting deeply on their own assumptions—sometimes leading to major personal or career changes, according to Mike's account. Additional conversation reveals how leadership lessons can be drawn from multiple presidential administrations, focusing on how leaders make decisions and work together. Mike provides the example of the enduring friendship that developed between Presidents George H W Bush and Bill Clinton and their shared commitment to service in times of crisis. Mike sees this relationship as one hopeful model for bridge-building and unity in a deeply divided moment. Next up: part 3 of our conversation!

In this first part of our interview with Dr. Mike Hemphill, Co-director of the Presidential Leadership Scholars program, April and Glen learn how Mike's path from academia to leadership work shaped a simple but powerful belief: leadership grows out of real human interaction, not titles or formulas. He talks about why patience, curiosity, and reflection matter so much when we’re trying to communicate across differences, and how ideas from communication theory—and even jazz improvisation—help explain what good conversation really looks like. Mike also introduces the Presidential Leadership Scholars Program he co-directs, describing it as a hands-on “leadership lab” that brings together people from very different backgrounds and communities. Rather than teaching leadership from a textbook, the program focuses on storytelling, personal experience, and relationships, showing how listening, openness, and connection can broaden perspectives and help people lead more thoughtfully across political and cultural divides.

In part 3 of our conversation with Annabelle Tuck, April and Glen delve into broader issues of the law and the jurisprudential philosophies that influence decision-making by courts in the state and nationally. Recent increased use of the “shadow docket” by the US Supreme court is of concern to Annabelle, as it has a major impact on the legal status of ongoing cases without providing any rationale into the reasons for these initial decisions, leaving attorneys and courts around the country with no guidance toward resolving important legal and constitutional questions. A fascinating discussion ensues on how recent Supreme Court decisions in her view can take too big of a “slice” in some legal cases and how that can mistakenly get ahead of public opinion, an important consideration in promoting societal acceptance of the court’s decisions. We also hear about her volunteer activities during her retirement that include advocacy for greater access to the legal system by the disadvantaged.

In part 2 of our conversation with retired Arkansas Supreme Court Justice Annabelle Tuck, April and Glen explore her faith journey as she converted to Judaism, its coherence with her legal philosophy, and the Torah’s serving as a foundation for much of Western law. We also hear about her moral and legal views that led to her decisions in some legal rulings in Arkansas that continue to influence the legal landscape. Specifically, Annabelle provides a fascinating first-hand account of the thinking and judicial issues associated with the Lakeview school District case that changed the way Arkansas funded public education. She also helps us understand the underpinnings of the case involving the LGBTQ community that overturned laws against sodomy. Annabelle also shares her observations about the current judicial and legal environment that has recently changed in so many important ways that it now seems to her “another world.“

April and Glen are joined by Annabelle Clinton Imber Tuck, a trailblazer in Arkansas law and the first woman ever elected to the Arkansas Supreme Court. In this first part of our conversation with Annabelle, we hear about her early life, starting in Arkansas, and including living in South America and later in Washington, DC, then winding up back in her beloved home state of Arkansas. She describes her early life influences, her interests in the legal profession, and the intense sense of justice and fairness that has influenced her work through the years. She also explains her political leanings, which some may find surprising. She highlights her longstanding desire for everyone in court to be heard and for justice to be done, with emphasis on the value of due process.