Today, Grace chats with the poet Paul Pastor on another poet, the revolutionary thinker and artist William Blake.

Paul J. Pastor is Executive Editor of Nelson Books at HarperCollins, an essayist, critic, and poet, writer of The Rose Fire on Substack, and author of several books, most recently The Locust Years: Poems, from Wiseblood Books. He lives in Oregon.

Grace is going to take a sabbatical from Old Books with Grace for a few months as she and her family are in the middle of several big projects and changes. You can keep up with her at gracehamman.substack.com while she's taking a break from the podcast, though!

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Today Grace welcomes Elizabeth Oldfield to recast these ancient ideas of vices and virtues into contemporary language. Why should we care about these ancient and sometimes worn-thin concepts? How can they speak to our world today--even if that world does not believe the same things as the church believes?

Elizabeth Oldfield is the author of Fully Alive: Tending to the Soul in Turbulent Times. She is a speaker, coach, and consultant, and the host of The Sacred podcast. Elizabeth has a masters in Theology and the Arts and lives in an intentional Christian community in South London with her family.

Today, Grace welcomes author Lisa Colón DeLay to discuss the fascinating ancient Christians that we now call the Desert Fathers and Mothers. People like Evagrius, Amma Theodora, St. Moses the Black, St. Anthony the Great, and many others offer deep wisdom in their own time and to us today.

Lisa Colón DeLay is the author of The Wild Land Within and has an MA in spiritual formation. She writes, teaches, and creates products and resources related to spiritual formation. Since 2015, she has hosted Spark My Muse, a top-rated religion and spirituality podcast. DeLay grew up in Pittsburgh, having left her native country of Puerto Rico, and now resides near the Appalachian Trail in a small town in Pennsylvania. Discover more, including more links and more information on her new book and the desert fathers and mothers, at lisadelay.com.

Learn more about Grace's new book, Ask of Old Paths: Medieval Virtues & Vices for a Whole & Holy Life.