Jon Benson, founder and CEO of BNSN, joins the podcast to talk about his path from writing the “Fit Over 40” book to becoming a leading direct-response copywriter and building AI tools for copywriting. Benson explains why video sales letters (VSLs) are effective, combining voice and text, narrative, and emotional pain points to reduce skepticism and improve message retention.

He describes how his software BNSN generates higher-quality copy than generic chatbots by training on strong examples and running multiple rewriting passes to remove common AI artifacts. Benson argues B2B marketers should write to one person, focus on relieving the buyer’s pain rather than company features, and use tactics like strong subject lines and PS sections in emails.

About BNSN

BNSN.AI is an AI-powered copywriting platform built for small business owners to create high-converting ads, emails, and sales pages in minutes. It is trained on proven, high-performing marketing campaigns and designed to simplify the process of writing persuasive copy through promptless AI tools and built-in marketing frameworks.

About Jon Benson

Jon BENSON is a copywriter, entrepreneur, and AI pioneer whose work has quietly shaped how the world buys things online. Best known as the inventor of the Video Sales Letter, the format that became the backbone of modern digital marketing, he has spent decades writing words that move people to act—not through manipulation, but through what he calls “ethical persuasion.”

In 2010, Jon turned his attention to copywriting software, becoming one of the earliest pioneers at the intersection of AI and sales copy. That work eventually evolved into BNSN, a platform trained exclusively on high-converting marketing campaigns and built for small business owners who sell good things to good people. BNSN reflects Jon’s core belief that the human element of business—community, coaching, and genuine connection—separates sustainable success from a flash in the pan.

Time Stamps

00:00 Welcome and Introductions 02:22 Nontechnical AI Builder 05:33 Why VSLs Convert 08:28 Narrative and Pain 12:14 Customers and Big Ideas 16:31 Beating AI Slop 20:38 Fixing B2B Copy 25:16 Email Subject and PS 27:40 Career Advice on AI 31:58 Resources and Wrap Up

Quotes

“There’s no such thing as selling to a business. It doesn’t exist. You’re selling to a person at a business.” Jon Benson, CEO at BNSN.

“If you don’t speak to the pain of your prospect, you’re not ever going to make them feel like they’re seen, heard, or understood.” Jon Benson, CEO at BNSN.

Follow Jon:

Jon Benson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonbenson

Jon Benson on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/itsjonbenson/

Jon Benson on X: https://x.com/itsjonbenson

Jon Benson on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/itsjonbenson

Jon Benson on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPDvmgurd-rym4pyPjviIuw

BNSN website: https://bnsn.ai/

Follow Mike:

Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/

Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/

Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favourite podcast platform.

Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547

Elliot Kim, CEO of Checkbox, explores why online survey tools are now largely a solved problem—and why the real differentiator lies in the company behind the product. He explains how Checkbox is building a people-first, purpose-driven business focused on trust, transparency, and customer-centric policies.

Elliot also discusses Checkbox’s broad range of research use cases, and explains how its combination of cloud and on-premise deployment options gives organizations greater control over sensitive data and supports data sovereignty requirements.

The conversation also examines the challenges of modern B2B research, from identifying “dark” prospects outside CRM systems through awareness and perception surveys, to reaching niche audiences with small sample sizes. Elliot shares how persistence, creativity, trusted research panels, and aligned incentives all play a role in driving honest, high-quality responses.

About Checkbox

Checkbox is a research-grade survey platform trusted by enterprises and public-sector organizations since 2002. With both SaaS and self-hosted deployment options, Checkbox gives teams full control over their data while making it easy to design, distribute, and act on research at scale.

About Elliot Kim

Elliot Kim is the CEO of Checkbox and an engineer at heart with two decades of building and scaling products. Before leading Checkbox, he spent years growing engineering teams and developing people-focused cultures in high-growth environments. He's driven to solve real-world problems through ethical research, done right.

Time Stamps

00:33 Elliot’s Career Journey 02:43 Why Another Survey Tool 07:49 Who Uses Checkbox 09:17 Awareness and Perception 11:43 Reliable B2B Research 15:05 Getting Honest Answers 17:24 On Premise and Trust 20:39 Running Better Studies

Quotes

“I love solving problems, that’s why I’ll always be an engineer at heart. I feel like I’ve traded satisfaction from my own personal accomplishments for the satisfaction I get from the team’s accomplishments.” Elliot Kim, CEO at Checkbox

“By the time someone enters your CRM, they’ve already made most of their decision — and analytics can’t really tell you about the people who didn’t.” Elliot Kim, CEO at Checkbox

“Marketing is about serving people with honesty and connecting not with every person in the world, but finding the right people and the right audience.” Elliot Kim, CEO at Checkbox

Follow Elliot:

Elliot Kim on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elliotykim/

Checkbox website: https://www.checkbox.com/

Checkbox on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/checkbox-com/

Follow Mike:

Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/

Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/

Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to our podcast for more discussions about the latest in Marketing B2B Tech and connect with us on social media to stay updated on upcoming episodes. We'd also appreciate it if you could leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform.

Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast - The Marketing Automation Moment: https://podcasts.apple.com/ua/podcast/the-marketing-automation-moment-podcast/id1659211547