Series 3 opens with Brian and Martin doing the thing the show is named after - sitting in the uncomfortable middle of a transition rather than analysing it from a safe distance. Brian is part-way through a staged shift from full-time consultant to full-time novelist, and describes himself as "neither and both": no longer fully one thing, not yet the other. Martin is moving deeper into independent advisory work, where the job has become helping teams who have no realistic plan walk into a room with no predetermined framework and trust that the work will emerge.

From there they open it out and argue that a plan should be a loosely-held theory rather than a fixed commitment, that frameworks and methods are means and not the destination, and that organisations are now in permanent flux — "instability is the stability of the moment." Listen in to find out how they end up deciding that a Farmer would make for a great guest and where the season could go (maybe?)- away from design talk, toward conversations with creatives, makers and farmers about how everyone is navigating the same flux. With a challenging reframe to close - how do we move from human-centred design to human-centred business.

Mentioned in this episode:

Plotters vs. pantsers

Design tools applied to fiction: journey mapping, experience maps, persona building

Brian's five-year plan (set out in 2022; consulting-to-writing transition)

Brian's publishing build-out: five novels published, a sixth in progress, further fantasy and crime series planned, Shopify site, TikTok shop

Lloyds Banking Group (where Martin and Brian previously worked together)

Learnings from the Pre-Fjord era of Accenture (Martin's early career)

Project-to-product operating model shift and Fractional head of product and design roles (Martin & Brian's client work)Multi-System pressures viewed through UK farming: inheritance tax changes, climate change, commodity price suppression

"Human-centred business" (Martin's closing reframe of human-centred design)

Liminality is about existing in transition, where uncertainty and ambiguity dominate. Innovation, at its core, is a liminal activity—organisations step away from established norms to explore new futures. But how comfortable are businesses with this uncertainty?

In this episode, Richard Walzer joins us to discuss:

* Why innovation is inherently liminal—leaving the known to explore possible futures

* The pendulum swing of innovation—why businesses drift between embracing and resisting change

* How future-back thinking can help leaders avoid stagnation

* The tension between Perform (stability) and Transform (innovation) in organizations

* What Apple, Pixar, and Xerox PARC teach us about the importance of balance

* How leaders can become more comfortable with uncertainty instead of reacting to it

As Martin notes: “Liminality is going to be a very constant feature.” If businesses continue to treat change as an on/off switch, are they setting themselves up for failure?

Episode Highlights

02:00 — Innovation as a liminal state—stepping away from the known

06:00 — Why businesses get stuck between the past and the future

10:00 — The pendulum swing of change—why organizations abandon innovation

15:00 — The 70/20/10 rule for balancing efficiency and transformation

22:00 — What Future-Back Thinking means for long-term resilience

35:00 — Why leadership struggles with ambiguity and liminal decision-making

50:00 — Why balance is about perpetual motion, not stability

💡 “The biggest challenge we have with businesses is they are generally laser-focused on what we are doing today.” – Richard WalzerFollow Richard on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-walzer-25140715

Stay Connected:

- Visit www.beingliminal.com for more episodes and to learn about the podcast.

- Share your feedback, suggest future guests, or pose questions for upcoming episodes by reaching out through the website.

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A new format that we are trying out where one of us shares a shorter deep dive on a current topic - we are interested in your responses and thoughts on the topics in these shorter episodes and we will pick up on the topic together in our longer format sessions.

In this episode of Being Liminal, I (Martin) explore the growing intersection of AI and creativity. The rise of AI-generated content is both fascinating and unsettling—offering new possibilities but also raising difficult questions about what it means to create, connect, and be human.

One example that caught my attention is Virtually Parkinson—a digital recreation of the legendary broadcaster Michael Parkinson. It’s a remarkable technical achievement, yet something about it feels… incomplete. The rhythm, the unpredictability, the nuance of human conversation—missing. And that gap made me wonder:

🔹 Are we heading towards a world where AI-generated content replaces human creativity?🔹 If creativity is about connection, what happens when future generations only experience art, music, and storytelling created by machines?🔹 How do we balance the commercial drivers of AI with the deeper cultural and human impact of creative work?

Key Themes in This Episode

✅ AI’s impact on creative industries—opportunities and risks✅ The blurred line between augmentation and replacement of human creativity✅ The business incentives behind AI-driven content and what they mean for the future✅ The potential long-term consequences on human connection and cultural identity

Why This Matters

Creative work isn’t just about output—it shapes our society, challenges our thinking, and helps us make sense of the world. If we don’t recognise and measure its true value, we risk losing something irreplaceable.

Join the Conversation

What do you think—are we at risk of losing the human essence of creativity? Or will AI simply become another tool for expression? Let’s discuss. Share your thoughts in the comments or reach out on LinkedIn.