What happens when you quit drinking—but life still feels unbearable? In this raw, deeply validating conversation, Dr. Sarah Michaud sits down with sobriety coach, author, and creator of the Soberful podcast with Veronica Valli, to unpack the missing link in recovery: emotional sobriety. From early addiction and fear-driven coping to codependent relationships and subconscious attachment wounds, Veronica shares why so many people get sober yet still feel stuck—and what actually creates lasting freedom. This episode is for anyone who’s sober, sober-curious, or emotionally exhausted from repeating the same relationship patterns and wondering, “Why am I still hurting?”

Key Takeaways

• Why sobriety without emotional recovery can feel worse over time

• How fear—not alcohol—is often the real addiction

• The connection between codependency, attachment wounds, and relapse

• Why movement and the body are non-negotiable in healing

• What “emotional sobriety” actually looks like in real life

Key Timestamps

[00:02:00] Veronica’s early drinking and fear-based coping

[00:06:00] The moment she realized fear—not alcohol—was the root

[00:08:30] Emotional sobriety vs. white-knuckling recovery

[00:11:30] Why relationships stay chaotic even after getting sober

[00:14:30] The five pillars of emotional sobriety

[00:18:00] Why movement and the body matter more than we thinkNotable Resources & Guest Links

• Veronica Valli — Sobriety Coach & Author

• Book: Soberful

Podcast & YouTube: Soberful

If this episode resonated, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown—and share it with someone who’s sober but still struggling.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up—we’re leaving CrazyTown.

In this episode of Leaving CrazyTown, Finn and Dr. Sarah break down a deceptively simple but life-changing concept: there is nothing to defend. Through humor, real-life role-play, and honest reflection, they explore how defensiveness, ghosting, and emotional shutdown sabotage connection—and how validation, curiosity, and clarity create safety instead. If you’ve ever felt misunderstood, reactive, or stuck in communication loops, this conversation offers a grounded path out of CrazyTown and into emotional freedom.Key Takeaways

• Defensiveness blocks connection—even when your intentions are good

• Validating someone’s feelings doesn’t mean agreeing with their story

• Telling yourself a story isn’t the same as telling the truth

• Clear, direct communication prevents resentment from leaking sideways

• Healing codependency starts with emotional responsibility, not blame

Key Timestamps

• [00:01] — Introducing “There Is Nothing to Defend”

• [00:02] — What defensiveness actually sounds like in real life

• [00:04] — Ghosting, shutdowns, and passive aggression explained

• [00:05] — Sharing feelings without blame

• [00:06] — Validation vs. agreement: the crucial distinction

Notable Resources & Links

• Dr. Sarah Michaud — Author of Co Crazy

• Website: https://drsarahmichaud.com/

• Follow @leavingcrazytown on YouTube

If this episode hit home, subscribe, rate, and review Leaving CrazyTown—and share it with someone who’s tired of defending themselves just to feel understood.

Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up—we’re leaving CrazyTown.

In this raw, relatable episode, Finn and Dr. Sarah unpack two deceptively simple moments that sent them spiraling onto the “crazy train.” What begins as a casual invite — coffee or walk? — becomes a full-blown internal crisis about likability, expectations, and imagined judgments. Together, they reveal how codependency sneaks into everyday interactions, why old fears get activated, and how to pause long enough to choose clarity over chaos. Expect laughter, truth bombs, and practical tools for stepping off the train and back into your life.

Takeaways

• Codependency often shows up in micro-moments, not just big relational crises.
• If a simple question feels hard to answer, you may be basing your response on imagined reactions, not your actual preference.
• Old stories (like fear of being “lazy,” “difficult,” or “high maintenance”) often drive our present-day behavior.
• Pausing before responding is a powerful tool for reclaiming agency and reducing reactivity.
• Progress isn’t perfection — noticing the pattern is the breakthrough.

Key Timestamps

• [00:00] — Welcome to Leaving CrazyTown

• [01:00] — Finn & Sarah confess: We briefly hopped back on the crazytrain

• [02:00] — The “coffee or walk?” question that triggered a codependent spiral

• [04:00] — Imagined judgments, old fears, and why simple choices feel impossible

• • [07:30] — How childhood conditioning shows up in adult relationships
  • [08:30] — Why awareness — not perfection — marks healing

  
  

  Notable Resources / Guest Links

• • Dr. Sarah Michaud, Author of Co Crazy

  • Follow on YouTube: @leavingcrazytown

  If this episode hit home, share it with a friend who answers questions based on fear instead of preference. And don’t forget to subscribe and review — it helps more people leave CrazyTown.

  
  Leaving CrazyTown is a raw, real-talk podcast hosted by Finn and Dr. Sarah Michaud, two recovering addicts turned relatable guides on the wild ride of codependency healing. Each episode dives deep into the chaos of dysfunctional relationships, identity loss, and emotional recovery—with humor, honesty, and hope. Subscribe and buckle up—we’re leaving CrazyTown.