In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood and guest Susan Drumm explore what it takes to make inclusion truly “stick” within organisations. Together, they investigate how blind spots can shape team dynamics and why curiosity, rather than resistance, serves as the real agent for personal and organisational growth. The conversation covers the value of diverse cognitive perspectives, the pitfalls of entrenched viewpoints, and practical tools such as the Enneagram for building trust, equity, and better decision-making in teams. Listeners will gain insights into the subtle ways habits and unspoken patterns influence inclusion, and how music and neuroscience can help leaders rewire unhelpful beliefs and unlock authentic change.

Susan is a renowned leadership advisor and coach, known for helping organisations turn diversity into everyday performance by embedding inclusive habits that foster trust and voice equity. Based in Scottsdale, Arizona, she brings a global perspective, having lived in London and worked with multi-sector teams across healthcare, tech, and financial services. Her gift lies in spotting the invisible patterns running teams and translating complex neuroscience into actionable, repeatable habits. Susan is also the author of The Leader’s Playlist, blending her passion for music with the science of transformation, and she hosts The Enlightened Executive podcast, where she interviews leaders about their journey towards enlightened leadership.

Joanne and Susan discuss the critical role of language in creating inclusive communication, the dangers of confirmation bias—exacerbated by AI—and the necessity of balancing empathy, curiosity, and authenticity. Using practical examples such as music playlists and leadership typologies, they illustrate how leaders can shift both their own and their team’s patterns, even in the face of imposter syndrome, burnout, and generational differences. The episode also examines common pitfalls in leadership teams, from missing creative voices to strengths that can become liabilities if left unchecked.

A key takeaway from this episode is that sustainable inclusion is built on intentional curiosity and active engagement with diverse perspectives. Listeners are encouraged to look beyond surface-level solutions, embracing practical tools to reframe their mindset and make long-lasting change. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that will both challenge and inspire anyone interested in creating authentically inclusive workplaces.