What does it really take to build something that wins — not just once, but over time?

In Episode 18 of the Branching Out Podcast, host Matt Butler sits down with Caleb Sewell, Sporting Director of FC Tulsa and former professional goalkeeper, for a deep leadership case study that goes far beyond sports.

This is not a career interview. It’s a conversation about systems, standards, and truth.

Using Caleb’s journey from player to executive leadership, this episode explores what leaders should focus on beforeresults show up — and how to stay disciplined when outcomes lag good strategy.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Decision-making under uncertainty
• Building systems instead of chasing short-term wins
• Why results often lag strong strategy
• How leaders measure progress before the scoreboard changes
• Accountability, truthful measurement, and uncomfortable data
• Culture as an operating system, not a buzzword
• Why excellence requires alignment, not heroics

Caleb shares how he helped lead a long-term transformation at FC Tulsa by setting clear standards, communicating the “why” behind change, and building coalitions instead of relying on quick fixes.

The leadership lessons in this episode apply whether you’re:

• Running a football club
• Leading a marketing or growth team
• Managing performance in high-pressure environments
• Or building an organization meant to last

At its core, this episode is about refusing to be associated with average — and understanding that excellence is built collectively, over time, with clarity, patience, and accountability.

🎙️ Listen to Episode 18 of Branching Out now.

In Episode 17, Part 2, we conclude our conversation with Sameer Modha by moving from philosophy into practice.

This episode focuses on the realities of marketing measurement once the analysis is done and the conversations begin.

We discuss:

• What it really takes to deliver tough measurement news
• Why “good-looking” dashboards can still lead to poor decisions
• Practical methodologies and the tradeoffs behind them
• Ongoing industry debates around attribution, incrementality, and automation
• How dashboards should be used as tools, not shields
• And where marketing measurement is heading as expectations continue to rise

Part 2 is about responsibility.

Because measurement doesn’t stop at reporting. It continues when teams are asked to explain impact, defend budgets, and make decisions under uncertainty.

This conversation is especially relevant for marketers, analysts, and leaders who want measurement to reflect real business outcomes, not just surface-level performance.

We want to sincerely thank Sameer Modha for joining us and for bringing such clarity, honesty, and thoughtfulness to this two-part conversation. His perspective made this episode what it is.

👉 If you haven’t listened yet, we recommend starting with Episode 17, Part 1, which covers career journeys, the philosophy of data and marketing, and why honesty is the foundation of meaningful measurement.

Thanks for listening, and we hope this conversation helps you approach measurement with clearer eyes and better questions.

marketing measurement, marketing analytics, attribution modeling, incrementality, dashboards, marketing automation, marketing ROI, business impact, analytics strategy, data-driven marketing, future of marketing, marketing leadership, decision making

Inside the Room: Russ, Steven & Matt on the New Rules of Marketing Recorded live at the Phocuswright summit, this episode brings you into the front row of an unfiltered conversation between Matt Butler (CEO, Bonsai ) and industry leaders Russ Hannig (former Gabb and Space SX) and Steven Thomas (Camping World), as they break down the future of marketing measurement, the rise of first-party data, and why truthful, causal-driven analytics are becoming the new competitive edge. In this 30-minute session, they dig into: Why traditional marketing measurement frameworks are failing The disconnect between P&L reality and marketing dashboards How leaders should rethink ROI, incrementality, and media allocation What actually drives business growth—not just campaign-level wins The shift from intuition-led decisions to evidence-based marketing How first-party customer data is reshaping strategy, privacy, and performance. Why the best teams are moving away from “hopeful dashboards” and toward truthful measurement Whether you're a CMO, analyst, agency leader, or growth operator, this conversation delivers practical insights on how to make smarter decisions, reclaim marketing impact, and navigate a world where algorithms, attribution, and privacy standards are reshaping everything. ✨ If you care about real ROI, causal inference, marketing analytics, and business growth—you’ll want to hear this.