In episode 25, Steve Van Aperen and Bradford Oakes explore lies, deception and the relationship between doctors and patients, joined by Dr Nicole Yap, an oncoplastic surgeon specialising in breast cancer surgery and reconstruction.

The episode begins with the hosts swapping travel and airport stories, from Brad’s Tasmania gig near Devonport to Steve’s shock at Sydney Airport coffee prices. Their banter moves into observations about comedy audiences in Melbourne and Sydney, with Brad suggesting Sydney crowds can be more inclined to heckle while Melbourne audiences are more theatre-oriented.

Dr Yap explains her specialised field. After training in plastic surgery and general surgery, she developed expertise in cancer treatment and reconstruction, particularly breast cancer surgery. She describes the possibility of helping patients through a cancer diagnosis while preserving, or even improving, how they feel about their appearance after surgery.

Nicole shares an early career story of being unexpectedly left to perform a series of appendectomies after her consultant was delayed by a television appearance. Initially nervous and relying heavily on her notes and an experienced theatre nurse, she successfully completed several procedures, gaining confidence and becoming increasingly focused on the quality of the scars she left behind.

The central conversation examines why patients conceal information, even when honesty is essential to their care. Dr Yap discusses patients who deny smoking despite clear evidence, and explains how nicotine can seriously compromise blood supply and surgical outcomes, particularly in reconstructive breast procedures. She also highlights the importance of asking patients specifically about weight-loss medications such as Ozempic, Wegovy and Mounjaro, which can create risks during anaesthesia if undisclosed.

Brad shares his experience of being delayed for a procedure after revealing he had recently had COVID-19, despite mentioning it in assessments. The discussion turns to medical staff recognising deception, including “doctor shoppers” seeking drugs and prisoners pretending to have symptoms to leave custody.

The episode also considers when doctors may soften the truth. Both Steve and Nicole describe delivering difficult news to grieving families with care and compassion, framing death or serious illness gently to reduce distress. They distinguish these “pro-social lies” from deception used for personal gain.

Throughout, the conversation balances humour with insight into human behaviour, confidence and trust. Dr Yap’s stories reveal how doctors navigate skill and treating people at vulnerable moments.

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Episode 24 sees Brad Oakes and Steve Van Aperen examine political lying, deception and public trust, asking how governments can mislead without always stating an obvious falsehood. They distinguish between direct lies, evasive answers, omissions and “obfuscation”—making an issue deliberately unclear or confusing. The pair also consider whether some lies can be protective or justified, such as withholding sensitive police information or sparing grieving families unnecessary distress, while arguing that political deception is far more consequential when it shapes public attitudes and policy.

The episode centres on the Children Overboard Scandal during the 2001 federal election. Senior government figures claimed that asylum seekers aboard a vessel had deliberately thrown children into the ocean in an attempt to force a Navy rescue. Steve explains that he later interviewed and polygraph-tested senior public servant Mike Scrafton, who had been asked to view naval videotapes for evidence of the alleged act. Scrafton said he saw no such evidence, and Steve says he passed the polygraph examination. Brad and Steve argue that images of children on a boat and children in the water were used to manufacture a powerful inference, despite there being no footage showing anyone throwing a child overboard. They describe the episode as an example of a politically useful story overtaking the underlying facts, reinforcing a tough-on-immigration message during an election campaign.

They broaden the discussion by comparing the scandal with international and domestic examples: the intelligence claims used to justify the Iraq War and Australia’s Robodebt scheme. In each case, they focus less on party politics than on the way official certainty can survive unanswered questions, flawed assumptions and contrary evidence. Their concern is not merely that an initial claim may be wrong, but that institutions and ministers can keep repeating it after serious doubts emerge. The hosts discuss the human cost of this process, particularly where misleading claims influence attitudes toward asylum seekers, lead to war, or leave welfare recipients facing incorrect debt notices, financial pressure and psychological harm.

Van Aperen concludes that lie detection has limits when key information remains secret or officials simply refuse to answer directly. Still, both hosts encourage listeners to pay attention to contradictions, unexplained changes of position and answers that avoid the question asked, rather than accepting confidence as proof of truth.

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Episode 23 of Fool Me Twice features hosts Bradford Oakes and Steve van Aperen in conversation with Rob Blezard, a Victoria Police detective with a 35-year career.

Blezard outlines his path from joining the force in 1988 to working ten years in uniform at city, Kew, Heidelberg and Brunswick stations. Brunswick, he explains, was an especially formative posting: busy shifts, experienced sergeants and constant exposure to street crime, drugs and repeat offenders taught young officers how to investigate, observe and act decisively.

He later moved into Crime Command, working in gaming and vice, organised crime, armed crime, homicide and specialist taskforces. His career included investigations into the Vicki Jacobs and John Furlan murders, along with an eight-year San Diego Task Force operation that resolved forty non-fatal shootings linked to Middle Eastern organised-crime networks. The discussion highlights the persistence of criminal groups and the importance of intelligence, detailed records and patient follow-up.

The episode’s central story is an urgent kidnapping investigation. Police initially knew only that an intercepted caller had said, “We’ve got him. Where do you want us to take him?” They had no confirmed victim, location or complete list of offenders. A detective travelling to the incident room stopped for fuel after collecting a forgotten phone, noticed a suspicious car, and wrote down its registration. Unbeknown to him, the kidnapped victim was inside and trying to attract his attention.

Investigators identified the suspected kidnapper through a repeatedly used false name, traced his phone to Frankston, and called dozens of local hotels. Surveillance found his motorbike outside one motel, while another hotel—beside Frankston Police Station—confirmed that five people had checked in under his name. The Special Operations Group entered the room and rescued the victim, who had been detained for six or seven hours, severely tortured, assaulted with a machete, and forced to play Russian roulette.

The abduction stemmed from a failed gun deal. The victim had arranged a $10,000 firearm purchase, but the seller took back the weapon while retaining the cash. The buyers assumed the victim had stolen their money, found him and abducted him to force repayment. Five offenders were later imprisoned.

Oakes, van Aperen and Blezard use the case to show how coincidence, instinct and diligent police work can save a life. Recording a registration number, connecting aliases, reviewing intelligence and making methodical local inquiries turned scattered fragments into a successful rescue. The episode closes with lighter stories from policing, but reinforces how quickly minor criminal disputes can turn violent.

Book Steve Van Aperen as your next keynote speaker: Click here

Get coached in stand-up comedy with Brad Oakes: Click here

Learn more about Fool Me Twice by visiting www.foolmetwice.com.au

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