Mike Perry is the founder and chief creative officer of Tavern, a branding and packaging agency based in Brooklyn focused on food, beverage, hospitality, and sports. ~ With over 15 years cutting across NBC Sports, Hendricks Gin, Budweiser, TikTok, and beyond, Mike has developed a philosophy as richly layered as the brands he works on — one rooted in subculture, source material, and a relentless pursuit of what he calls "modern heritage."

In this episode, Radim and Mike explore what it truly means to build something timeless in an industry obsessed with trends. From his punk-poster origins to floating an inflatable pigeon down the Hudson River for New York City Football Club, Mike reveals how chaos, curiosity, and hospitality form the connective tissue of great brand work.

Key Takeaways:

• Subculture is the source of all icons. You need the chaos of punk rock, the feral physicality of real-world experience, to fuel brand work that actually resonates, and Pinterest boards will never replace it.
• Modern heritage is a philosophy built on tension. Holding heritage and modernity in productive conflict — never resolving it too neatly — is what creates brand work that lasts beyond the next trend cycle.
• The MAYA principle (Most Advanced Yet Acceptable) applies to branding as much as architecture. Push far enough to surprise, but stay grounded enough to be understood.
• Designers are the true brand guardians. Brand managers rotate every two to three years; agencies stay for decades. That longevity is a responsibility, not just a relationship.
• If you're chasing trends, you're already late. By the time an activation is built around a trend, the trend is usually over, leaving brands looking worse than if they'd never tried.
• Brand worlds should become universes. The goal isn't a rebrand every two years. It's a platform so strong that every new person who touches it can only build outward, never backwards.
• Three equities and a truth. Not trends. Find what the brand genuinely owns, ground it in something real, and build from there.

Daring Creativity. Podcast with Radim Malinic

daringcreativity.com | desk@daringcreativity.com

Books by Radim Malinic Paperback and Kindle > https://amzn.to/4biTwFc
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A short bonus episode showcasing a few standout moments from this week's guest interview with Catharine Pitt ~

Daring Creativity. Podcast with Radim Malinic

daringcreativity.com | desk@daringcreativity.com

Books by Radim Malinic Paperback and Kindle > https://amzn.to/4biTwFc
Free audiobook (with Audible trial) > https://geni.us/free-audiobook
Book bundles https://novemberuniverse.co.uk

Lux Coffee Co. https://luxcoffee.co.uk/ (Use: PODCAST for 15% off)

November Universe https://novemberuniverse.co.uk (Use: PODCAST for 10% off)

Catharine Pitt, co-founder of Brighton-based animation duo Form Play, joins the podcast to talk about what happens when you burn out, start over, and finally build something worth protecting.

Catharine and her partner Mark spent years running a full-service design studio doing ad campaigns and seasonal retail work — ticking every box and feeling none of it. In their mid-forties, they walked away. What followed was two years of gradual reinvention: evenings spent relearning, slowly phasing out old clients, and rediscovering the joy of drawing. They emerged with a hyper-focused studio specialising in 2D frame animation, character design, and short-form storytelling — working with brands like Google, Patreon, and Comedy Central, while building their reputation with growth-stage startups who are still finding their voice.

The conversation covers their creative manifesto, how COVID gave them the space to develop their micro-story framework, and why they use AI only as a "stress-testing knowledge base" — never for the creative work itself. Most compellingly, Catharine explains how they license rather than sell their characters, borrowing principles from the music and illustration industries to build longer-term client relationships and a more sustainable creative business.

Key Takeaways

• The mid-forties crossroads is more common than you think – Catharine and Radim discover a shared experience: reaching the peak of what they'd worked for, and realising it wasn't who they wanted to be next
• Burning out is data – A previous studio that depleted rather than fuelled them became the compass for everything Form Play stands for: client work must energise, not exhaust
• Incremental change beats big leaps – Their transition took two years, running old and new in parallel, until the new was strong enough to stand alone
• Play is the methodology, not just the name – Form Play's approach to creation — sketch, iterate, test, publish, move on — is how they stay resilient, stay fresh, and avoid creative paralysis
• Micro stories have a formula – Start in the middle of the action; use humor, empathy, and surprise; condense time to exaggerate emotion. Their Instagram playground became their client framework
• AI as untrusted advisor – They use AI to challenge assumptions and explore unfamiliar territory in business, but keep it entirely out of their visual creative process
• Licensing changes everything – Influenced by the music and illustration industries, they separate creation fees from usage fees, giving clients flexibility and protecting the studio's long-term income
• The risk of not changing – Rory Sutherland's overlooked point resonates here: staying the same carries its own risk; creative people need to stop treating change as the dangerous option
• Distinction will be the premium – As AI floods the world with average output, work with imperfection, humanity, and emotional depth will become more valuable, not less

Daring Creativity. Podcast with Radim Malinic

daringcreativity.com | desk@daringcreativity.com

Books by Radim Malinic Paperback and Kindle > https://amzn.to/4biTwFc
Free audiobook (with Audible trial) > https://geni.us/free-audiobook
Book bundles https://novemberuniverse.co.uk

Lux Coffee Co. https://luxcoffee.co.uk/ (Use: PODCAST for 15% off)

November Universe https://novemberuniverse.co.uk (Use: PODCAST for 10% off)