We reflect on the show as a whole--the cost of lies, what lying exacts from us--and pivot the conversation to the authoritarian turn in contemporary US politics, covering the corrosive public habits that have shredded our social safety net, the myth-making we constantly engage in, authoritarian circles of UNaccountability, and so on.

In this penultimate episode of the season, we talk about what makes a good person in a bad system and what makes bad systems bad. We talk about narrow self-interest, the temptations of power and profit, how being put in charge encourages buy-in, and so on. We talk about the work of science and science communication, especially when it bumps up against state interests. We talk about AI and "connected labor," the limits of human beings and the limits of technology. We never make it to answering the question, "What is the cost of lies?" That'll be for next time.

Also, books we happened to mention:

Allison Pugh, The Last Human Job (PUP, 2024)

Melvin Rogers, The Darkened Light of Faith (PUP, 2023)

John Corrigan, The Feeling of Forgetting (UCP, 2023)

In this episode, we talk about how various characters try to assume, deflect, and apportion responsibility; we talk about the limits of human beings and the limits of technology; we talk about processes of dehumanizing others and ourselves; we talk about cynicism and agency under authoritarian rule; we talk about gender and humiliation; and we talk about who gets to know, and who has to tell, the truth.

Jess and Derek talk about the way secrets and lies deprive people of the ability to help themselves and each other; the dystopian notion of "a circle of accountability"; what the miners represent in their cynicism and dignity; and Chormuk's qualitative quest to find out the truth of what happened that April night, and to make it make sense.

In this episode, Jess and Derek talk about official buck-passing, the gendered spaces of decision-making and scientific practices, methodological and measurement nerdery, the power and confinement of being in charge, and intense claustrophobia.

As always, Jess says the smart stuff, while Derek does plot summary.

In this episode, Jess and Derek talk about the lies that bind, the combination of callousness and heroism operating on both systemic and interpersonal levels, and how difficult it can be to reckon with truths as blindingly obvious as a nuclear explosion.

Reading List:

Alexievich, Voices from Chernobyl (2006)

Plohky, Chernobyl: The History of a Nuclear Catastrophe (2018)

Higginbotham, Midnight in Chernobyl (2019)

The show's official podcast.

A little note about why we're rewatching a 2019 miniseries in the year of our lord 2025.