Marketers love the idea that more data will finally prove marketing’s value. But what if more evidence doesn’t create more confidence or more budget protection?

In this solo episode, Matt Butler breaks down the misconception behind “premium” measurement signals like incremental conversions from major platforms and why they’re often treated as a shiny upgrade instead of the bare minimum. The real problem isn’t a lack of tracking. It’s a lack of demonstrated business outcomes.

This conversation reframes incrementality as the core proof marketers actually need: measurable, incremental sales growth. Not attribution theater. Not dashboard volume. Real lift that a CFO can trust and a leadership team can fund.

In this episode:

• Why “more data” rarely translates into more credibility
• What incremental conversions really represent (and what they don’t)
• The trap of optimizing for tracking instead of outcomes
• Why incremental sales growth is the only proof that protects budget
• How to align measurement with real business impact

If you’re responsible for performance, growth, or marketing effectiveness, this episode is a reset: stop chasing proof that looks impressive and start proving what changes the business.

What does it really take to build something that wins — not just once, but over time?

In Episode 18 of the Branching Out Podcast, host Matt Butler sits down with Caleb Sewell, Sporting Director of FC Tulsa and former professional goalkeeper, for a deep leadership case study that goes far beyond sports.

This is not a career interview. It’s a conversation about systems, standards, and truth.

Using Caleb’s journey from player to executive leadership, this episode explores what leaders should focus on beforeresults show up — and how to stay disciplined when outcomes lag good strategy.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Decision-making under uncertainty
• Building systems instead of chasing short-term wins
• Why results often lag strong strategy
• How leaders measure progress before the scoreboard changes
• Accountability, truthful measurement, and uncomfortable data
• Culture as an operating system, not a buzzword
• Why excellence requires alignment, not heroics

Caleb shares how he helped lead a long-term transformation at FC Tulsa by setting clear standards, communicating the “why” behind change, and building coalitions instead of relying on quick fixes.

The leadership lessons in this episode apply whether you’re:

• Running a football club
• Leading a marketing or growth team
• Managing performance in high-pressure environments
• Or building an organization meant to last

At its core, this episode is about refusing to be associated with average — and understanding that excellence is built collectively, over time, with clarity, patience, and accountability.

🎙️ Listen to Episode 18 of Branching Out now.

In Episode 17, Part 2, we conclude our conversation with Sameer Modha by moving from philosophy into practice.

This episode focuses on the realities of marketing measurement once the analysis is done and the conversations begin.

We discuss:

• What it really takes to deliver tough measurement news
• Why “good-looking” dashboards can still lead to poor decisions
• Practical methodologies and the tradeoffs behind them
• Ongoing industry debates around attribution, incrementality, and automation
• How dashboards should be used as tools, not shields
• And where marketing measurement is heading as expectations continue to rise

Part 2 is about responsibility.

Because measurement doesn’t stop at reporting. It continues when teams are asked to explain impact, defend budgets, and make decisions under uncertainty.

This conversation is especially relevant for marketers, analysts, and leaders who want measurement to reflect real business outcomes, not just surface-level performance.

We want to sincerely thank Sameer Modha for joining us and for bringing such clarity, honesty, and thoughtfulness to this two-part conversation. His perspective made this episode what it is.

👉 If you haven’t listened yet, we recommend starting with Episode 17, Part 1, which covers career journeys, the philosophy of data and marketing, and why honesty is the foundation of meaningful measurement.

Thanks for listening, and we hope this conversation helps you approach measurement with clearer eyes and better questions.

marketing measurement, marketing analytics, attribution modeling, incrementality, dashboards, marketing automation, marketing ROI, business impact, analytics strategy, data-driven marketing, future of marketing, marketing leadership, decision making