Science was supposed to be the one institution immune to the attention economy. It succumbed anyway. Kent Anderson and Joy Moore join Mookie for the 79th episode of Bald Ambition to talk about the already dire implications, and what we should do.

Kent and Joy have spent decades inside scientific publishing: the editorial and distribution machinery that turns research into the "studies show" headlines you scroll past every day. Their new book, How the Internet Disrupted Science (out August 4), traces exactly how that machinery broke, and why the breakdown is feeding the same institutional distrust poisoning politics, media, and public health.

They decribe how when publishing flipped from subscriber-funded to pay-to-publish, journals stopped getting paid to reject bad papers and started getting paid to accept them. Peer review got deprioritized. Preprint servers — built for physicists sharing telescope data — got repurposed for biomedical claims with minimal to zero vetting. The result: 25,000+ journals, a paper mill economy, and a scientific record that can't be corrected once it's indexed, cited, and fed into an LLM.

That's the tension at the center of this conversation. The public's distrust of institutions is real and often earned, exacerbated when COVID exposed genuine communication failures, flip-flopping, and arrogance from public health authorities. But the "democratization" that was supposed to fix institutional gatekeeping instead built a parallel attention economy where Silicon Valley moguls reign supreme, volume beats rigor, sensationalism beats replication, and a wellness grifter with 80 pay-to-play citations looks as credible as a legitimate researcher. The public started distrusting science when the attention economy manufactured a version of science optimized to be distrusted.

Mookie pushes back on what got us into this mess in the first place. He questions whether LLM limitations are really the crisis Anderson and Moore claim, and whether "the internet ruined it" lets decades of cloistered, pre-internet gatekeeping off the hook. Then he goes further: if Wall Street can separate Elon Musk the troll from the trillionaire whose rockets actually launch, can the public learn to make that same split between bullshit, bravado, and evidence-based brawn? Why write off science wholesale when it can and perhaps should be reinvented?

Anderson and Moore argue the real fight isn't over who's loudest, it's over who gets to rebuild the system once it's broken, and they lay out what scientific publishing could look like if it's built from scratch instead of patched: less gatekeeping for gatekeeping's sake, more resistance to the attention economy, a shot at the kind of paradigm shift that only happens when the old model finally breaks. Give them a listen, it could be the most important conversation you hear since the pandemic.

The Guests

Kent Anderson has worked in scholarly and scientific publishing for nearly thirty years, serving as Director of Journals at the American Academy of Pediatrics when the initial vaccine-autism link was forged in mass media; working as Publishing Director at the New England Journal of Medicine; serving as CEO of the Journal of Bone & Joint Surgery; and working as Publisher at AAAS/Science. He also founded two of the most influential blogs in scholarly publishing, the Webby-nominated Scholarly Kitchen and his current paid e-newsletter, the Geyser. Through these, he has kept a near-daily pulse on activities in the space since 2007. He lives and works as a consultant outside of Boston.

Joy Moore landed her first job out of college in a scientific journal editorial office in Chapel Hill, NC in 1995, in the days of fax, on the cusp of the internet. She quickly became a key player in the discovery and adoption of technology into the workflow to produce, disseminate, and monetize scholarly and medical products. She has worked for or with nearly every major global commercial publisher, scientific society, platform vendor, technology partner, and funding body in the space. Blackwell (later Wiley), Nature, Wolters Kluwer, McGraw-Hill, The American Medical Association, Silverchair, and EBSCO, to name a few. Her current home base is Williamsburg, Virginia.

Their Book & Podcast

https://www.disruptedscience.com/

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Mookie is excited to have Vance Morris on the pod today, a marketing expert who got his start on the opening team of Disney's Yacht and Beach Club Resort, spent three and a half years inside Pleasure Island (Disney's one real off-brand experiment), and now owns three home-service businesses in Maryland that he runs on 90 minutes a week — because the systems do the work. No bots answer his phones. No 17-option menu. Just a guy who picks up.

The whole conversation keeps landing on the same idea: the fanciest tool in the room usually isn't the one that wins. Disney's underground utilidor tunnels aren't some genius AI-era innovation — they're a 70-year-old trick for keeping the mess out of sight so the magic stays uninterrupted. Vance's newsletter is essentially a print mailer with stupid criminal stories and his daughter's ballet recital photo, and it built more loyalty than any CRM ever has. Fear sells better than happiness. A dollar-off coupon plus a bigger logo plus one good story gets you 95% of the way there. Just cut through the noise, any way you can.

Mookie and Vance also get into the Eisner-Wells era, the Chapek hire nobody saw working, and whether new CEO Josh D'Amaro's parks background signals Disney getting back to basics. They also discuss the actual math on why keeping a customer costs a fraction of finding one, and why most companies still spend $0 of their marketing budget on it.

In a moment where everyone's racing to bolt AI onto everything, this episode is a case for the boring and basic stuff that still works.

The Guest

Vance is a former Birth Control Factory Security Guard and turned that into a wild journey from Disney leader to bankrupt out-of-work executive to carpet cleaner to successful entrepreneur. Today, he’s the guy businesses call when they’re bleeding profit and can’t figure out why. He delivers real-world systems that stop customers from quietly disappearing and stop money from leaking out the back door. He’s the only expert on the planet, who blends direct-response marketing with engineered customer loyalty and retention.

https://vancemorris.com/

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Christopher Horrocks is back in the Bald Ambition studio just three months after his first appearance to keep pace and continue to call-out AI confusion and misinformation. Since April, frontier models have become dramatically more capable, companies have invested hundreds of billions more into artificial intelligence, and predictions about AGI have only grown more ambitious. If anything, Christopher's central argument has become even more relevant.

Mookie calls Christopher the "Mythbuster of AI" because he refuses to accept the false choice dominating today's AI conversation. On one side are those who insist today's models are nothing more than sophisticated autocomplete. On the other are those who believe consciousness, self-awareness, or even AGI is already emerging from large language models. Christopher argues that both camps are making the same conceptual mistake: they're treating AI as a binary when it represents something fundamentally new.

That new category is what Christopher calls "virtual intelligence." Today's frontier models display extraordinary cognitive abilities. They reason, synthesize information, write persuasive prose, solve complex problems, and increasingly mimic the texture of human conversation. But remarkable capability should not be confused with genuine subjective experience. Throughout the discussion, Christopher argues that we are projecting human qualities onto systems that remain astonishing simulations rather than conscious beings.

That single distinction opens the door to a far broader conversation. Mookie and Christopher explore why people increasingly form emotional attachments to chatbots, why language is such a poor test for consciousness, and why even many of AI's most respected pioneers may be overstating what today's systems actually are. Using examples ranging from Geoffrey Hinton's views on AGI to Magnus Carlsen's intuitive chess mastery, they examine the enormous gulf between performing an intelligent task and possessing an inner life capable of intention, feeling, and lived experience.

The discussion also ventures into neuroscience, philosophy, cosmology, and evolutionary biology, asking whether genuine machine consciousness—when it eventually emerges—might arrive in a form completely unlike the language models dominating today's headlines. Ironically, Christopher argues that truly conscious AI might be harder to recognize precisely because today's systems have become so extraordinarily good at simulating it.

Ultimately, this conversation is less about predicting the future than accurately describing the present. Artificial intelligence is already transforming the world, but understanding what these systems actually are—and what they are not—may be the most important challenge facing technologists, policymakers, investors, and the public alike. Before humanity can answer the question of whether machines will someday become conscious, Christopher argues that we first have to stop mistaking convincing simulations for the real thing.

The Guest

Christopher Horrocks is a technologist at the University of Pennsylvania who writes about artificial intelligence, technology ethics, and the human consequences of systems that don't know true from false or right from wrong. His Virtual Intelligence essay series, published at chorrocks.substack.com, develops a philosophical and analytical framework for understanding the generative AI systems now reshaping work, relationships, and public life. He lives in Philadelphia.

His Resources

https://candc3d.github.io/vi-framework/ Infographic that explains the concepts without needing to read anything in advance

https://candc3d.github.io/sampo-diagnostic/ Home page for the free diagnostic tool kit that can be used to evaluate a user's relationship with the system

Their Prior Conversation

https://www.buzzsprout.com/2455310/episodes/18973680

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