Avenue M is hosted by Haroon Moghul and Joey Taylor. We’re two men on a journey of faith and meaning. In most episodes, we sit down with a remarkable guest to unpack the moments that shape us, the struggles that build us and the questions that intrigue us.

But this episode is a little different. Instead of hosting a guest, we went live to have the kind of honest, unscripted conversation we usually save for ourselves. We talked about faith, doubt, spiritual direction, Ramadan and Lent, mentorship, and what it means to discern the trajectory of your life when you’re no longer 18. We chose to share this publicly because these are the conversations that first sparked Avenue M and because we’ve learned that when we wrestle out loud, it often gives others permission to do the same.

Our sponsor is The Brueggeman Center for Dialogue at Xavier University, here in Cincinnati, which is dedicated to deepening understanding across faiths and promoting systemic change.

Avenue M is produced by Bespoken Live with music by Zach Swelber, who plays in Circle It and Mosant.

This week’s guest is Paul Vigna.

Paul Vigna is an author and former reporter for The Wall Street Journal, and has been a journalist for more than 30 years, as a reporter, editor, and photographer. He currently writes the Substack newsletter PofV and posts on TikTok under his name. Vigna covered the equity markets and economics for the journal across its blogs, podcasts, and live video programs. In 2013 he began writing about bitcoin, pioneered coverage of bitcoin and the cryptocurrency sector. In 2015, he co-wrote "The Age of Cryptocurrency" with Michael J. Casey and published by St. Martin's Press, the first book about bitcoin from a Big Five publisher. They followed that up with "The Truth Machine" in 2018. He also covered arts and entertainment while at the Journal, and in 2017 published "Guts: The Anatomy of The Walking Dead," with Dey Street Books. His work has appeared in The Wall Street Journal, The Dallas Morning News, and MIT Technology Review. He has spoken at South By Southwest and Comic Con New York, as well as many other conferences. He starred in the 2016 documentary "Banking on Bitcoin." Vigna is a native of New Jersey and a 1990 graduate of Fairfield University in Connecticut.

His newest book is The Almightier: How Money Became God, Greed Became Virtue, and Debt Became Sin.

In this conversation we dive into the intricate relationship between money, morality, and society. We explore the historical evolution of wealth, the moral implications of capitalism, and the cultural narratives that shape our understanding of money today. From the Renaissance to modern America, this conversation challenges conventional wisdom and invites you to rethink the role of money in our lives.

Our sponsor is The Brueggeman Center for Dialogue at Xavier University, here in Cincinnati, which is dedicated to deepening understanding across faiths and promoting systemic change.

Avenue M is produced by Bespoken Live with music by Zach Swelber, who plays in Circle It and Mosant.

This week’s guest is Shadi Hamid.

Shadi Hamid is a columnist at The Washington Post and a senior fellow at Georgetown University's Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding. Previously, he was research professor of Islamic studies at Fuller Seminary as well as a longtime senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a contributing writer at The Atlantic. Hamid's newest book is The Case for American Power (Simon & Schuster). He is also the author of several other books, including The Problem of Democracy, as well as the co-editor of Rethinking Political Islam. His book Islamic Exceptionalism: How the Struggle Over Islam is Reshaping the World was shortlisted for the 2017 Lionel Gelber Prize for best book on foreign affairs. In 2019, Hamid was named one of the world’s top 50 thinkers by Prospect magazine. He is also the co-founder of Wisdom of Crowds, a podcast, newsletter, and debate platform. Hamid received his B.S. and M.A. from Georgetown University’s School of Foreign Service and his Ph.D. in political science from Oxford University, where he was a Marshall Scholar.

His newest book argues that America, for all its contradictions and failures, is still, in his words, “the last best hope for a more moral and just world.”

In this conversation, we press him on that claim. Is it possible for a nation-state to act morally? What happens when faith traditions rooted in humility and sacrifice collide with the logic of power? And what do we do when moral conviction itself becomes a weapon — in foreign policy, in Gaza, and even in our domestic politics?

Shadi calls his book a “love letter to America,” but the conversation quickly becomes a debate about what love looks like and what it demands when the country you love commits moral wrongs.

It’s a conversation about belief and realism, religion and responsibility, power and purity and whether the only way to redeem power is to take it.

Avenue M is produced by Bespoken Live with music by Zach Swelber, who plays in Circle It and Mosant.