5-Hour Formula: Live More, Work Less cover art

5-Hour Formula: Live More, Work Less

5-Hour Formula: Live More, Work Less

By: Alex Gafford
Listen for free

About this listen

 Based on my personal experience working 5-hour workdays since 2016– I will help you learn how to get more done in less time while reinvesting the freed-up hours into what truly matters most to you.© 2025 Alex Gafford Economics Hygiene & Healthy Living Psychology Psychology & Mental Health
Episodes
  • [#15] Juliet Schor: The Evidence for the 4-Day Workweek

    [#15] Juliet Schor: The Evidence for the 4-Day Workweek
    Nov 26 2025
    Economist and sociologist Dr. Juliet Schor has spent decades studying working time, overwork, consumer culture, and now the global movement toward shorter workweeks. In this conversation, we unpack what the data actually shows about four-day weeks: productivity, well-being, turnover, carbon emissions, and the business case for working less.Juliet shares stories from companies and public organizations around the world—from advertising agencies and restaurants to nurses, startups, and local governments, showing how shorter hours can reduce burnout, improve quality, and save money even when output doesn’t “go up.” She also explains why shorter hours act as a forcing function for innovation, how they enable lower-carbon lifestyles, and why we’ve been stuck at a five-day week for 85 years.We connect the research to our nine-year experiment with a 5-hour workday, and explore what might be possible with a future 4-day, reduced-hour workweek.Why listenLearn what the research actually says about four-day workweeks—beyond hype, headlines, and opinions.Hear how companies in high-stress sectors like healthcare, restaurants, and advertising are using shorter hours to cut burnout, improve quality, and reduce turnover.Understand the difference between 100-80-100 and 100-80-80 models—and why not every success story is about “doing more with less.”See how shorter workweeks can reduce carbon emissions and enable more sustainable lifestyles through behavior change, not just fewer commutes.Discover why shorter hours act as a forcing mechanism that breaks Parkinson’s Law and drives better processes, documentation, and focus.Get ideas for how employees, managers, and leaders can start the conversation about work-time reduction inside their own organizations.Highlights & timestamps 00:17 – Welcome to Five Hour FormulaAlex frames the five-hour workday experiment and introduces Juliet as a leading researcher on shorter workweeks.00:33 – Who is Dr. Juliet Schor?Juliet’s background as an economist/sociologist, The Overworked American, and her latest book Four Days a Week.02:21 – Origin storyGrowing up in coal country, her father’s work with mine workers, and how she became interested in working time.03:28 – From surveys to global trialsEarly surveys showing huge appetite for a four-day week, the long “quiet period,” and how Joe O’Connor and Four Day Week Global pulled her into large-scale trials during and after the pandemic.05:08 – Why shorter hours once seemed like a luxuryInequality, wage stagnation, and economic distress pushed shorter workweeks off the agenda—until COVID forced a rethink of how and why we work.08:07 – Shorter workweeks, climate & carbonWhat the data actually shows on emissions: modest commuting gains, income as a big driver of carbon, and why countries that choose more free time over more output see larger climate benefits.11:01 – Time, money & behavior changeShorter hours as an “enabling condition” for more sustainable lifestyles and more intentional choices—echoed by Alex’s experience with the 5-hour day.12:30 – 5-hour days vs 4-day weeksComparing Alex’s 25-hour workweek with the 32-hour model in the trials, and how both create space for better lives and lower-carbon habits.15:10 – 100-80-100 vs 100-80-80Why some organizations maintain output (100-80-100) while others accept less output (100-80-80) but win through lower turnover, better outcomes, and reduced hiring costs—especially in healthcare, restaurants, and nonprofits.17:05 – Case studies across sectorsNurses with better patient outcomes, chefs who finally stay, and an ad agency slashing 30–40% turnover while clients love the stability.22:10 – A UK council saves ~£750kHow South Cambridgeshire Council used a four-day week to attract talent, reduce temp staff and bonuses, still save money, and weather political backlash.25:29 – Speed-up or working smarter?Research showing real work reorganization and self-reported gains in competence and productivity—with little evidence of simple speed-up.26:05 – What actually changes inside companiesIn white-collar firms: fewer/better meetings and more focus time.In breweries, restaurants, and factories: staffing changes, time-and-motion improvements, and burnout reduction.28:32 – Turnover, meetings, and hidden inefficienciesWhy even already-efficient teams gain massively from better retention, while many companies still have huge upside in cutting meeting overload and distraction.30:00 – A startup “saved” by the four-day weekA satellite internet startup handles a huge new contract without burning out the team—thanks to the four-day week, better documentation, and long-delayed process improvements.33:38 – The four-day week as a forcing functionShorter hours act as a constraint that forces innovation, better processes, documentation, and smarter use of tech and AI.34:13 – Parkinson’s Law & 85 years at 40 hoursHow being stuck ...
    Show More Show Less
    49 mins
  • [#14] Alex Pang: Work Less, Rest More - Achieve World-Class Results

    [#14] Alex Pang: Work Less, Rest More - Achieve World-Class Results
    Nov 11 2025
    Futurist and author Alex Soojung-Kim Pang joins Alex Gafford to unpack why the most productive people and teams don’t work more, they work better. We dive into Pang’s trilogy (The Distraction Addiction, Rest, Shorter), the research behind 4–5 hours of daily deep work, and how design thinking turns shorter-hours experiments into durable operating systems. We also explore AI’s role, global adoption trends, and practical steps any leader can take this quarter.Why listenLearn the science behind the “~4 hours of deep work” ceiling — and how elite performers pair it with deliberate rest.See how shorter-hours experiments solve real problems: retention, burnout, recruiting, founder sanity.Steal the cadence: protected focus blocks → deliberate breaks → lighter admin.Get a realistic view of AI: tool for climbing the value chain vs. blunt headcount cuts.Walk away with a 6-step playbook to pilot a shorter week or shorter day.Highlights & timestamps00:00 – Welcome & Origin StoryHow Blue Street and Pang first connected; pre-pandemic “are we crazy?” moments and why that skepticism faded.01:13 – Not Just TechShorter profiled 100+ companies across law, manufacturing, professional services — proof the movement isn’t lifestyle-only.04:05 – Real Business DriversRetention and recruiting pressure → time as a benefit; burnout in high-pressure industries.06:32 – Asia’s Pushback on OverworkJapan/Korea examples; cultural headwinds and 1,000-person organizations experimenting with reduced hours.09:01 – Keep It an ExperimentWhy the model works best as a continuing experiment (not an entitlement) — and how that mindset fuels improvement.10:00 – From Rest to CultureBlue Street’s book-club takeaways → company rituals: 90-minute deep-work sprints followed by devices-down walks.14:15 – The Trilogy’s ArcThe Distraction Addiction (attention design) → Rest (recovery for brilliance) → Shorter (scaling it organization-wide).18:25 – Training AnalogyPerformance rises when recovery rises; why sleep quality and mid-day movement aren’t “nice-to-haves”.20:41 – The “Four Hours” ChapterDarwin, Dickens, scientists, composers: repeated pattern of 4–5 hrs/day of truly deep work.21:41 – Reframing the 10,000-Hour RuleEricsson’s data: ~4 hrs/day of deliberate practice plus ~12,500 hrs deliberate rest and ~30,000 hrs sleep over a decade.24:52 – Layering Deep Work + Deliberate RestWalks and active breaks amplify problem-solving via the default mode network.32:01 – Design Thinking for Work-Time ReductionHow Pang structures Shorter: iterate, test, codify — and how leaders can apply it personally and organizationally.38:59 – Future of Work & AIAI enables time dividends if implemented by workers to climb the value chain; beware “consultant-driven” headcount cuts.44:06 – Scale & AdoptionPang now sees ~1,000+ orgs operating with reduced hours at same pay across sizes and sectors.45:21 – Big-Company PatternsCase approach: local pilots (e.g., stores/departments), heavy measurement, de-risk, then scale.46:32 – Four-Day vs. Shorter DaysWhy 4DWs sell easily, but 5–6 hour days better fit school schedules and cognitive ceilings; both models work.50:40 – What Pang’s Building NowConsulting with nonprofits; free open-access program to help teams design shorter-hours trials.51:27 – Where to StartAccess Pang’s open course and reach out for organizational design support (links in Resources).The playbook (quick start)Protect Deep Work (90 mins x 2–3/day): No Slack, phones, or meetings. Door-closed norms apply to everyone, senior leaders included.Layer Deliberate Rest: After each sprint, 10–20 minutes of devices-down walking, light movement, or nature.Right-size Meetings: Default 15 minutes. Require purpose + pre-read. End early on principle.Design Thinking Cadence: Pick a team → define constraints → run a 6–12 week pilot → measure output/quality/CSAT → codify → expand.Make It an Experiment, Always: Treat reduced hours as earned via outcomes; iterate policies quarterly.Aim AI at the Busy Work: Have workers choose where AI removes drudgery so they can spend more time on high-value work and bank some of the time as free time.Best Quotes from Alex Pang:“The only bad shorter workweek is the one you don’t implement.” “Top performers don’t just practice more — they rest more and sleep better.”“Keep it an experiment — that’s how you prevent entitlement and keep improving.”“AI can enable a four-day week — but only if we choose to spend the time dividend well.”Resources & mentionsBooks by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang: Shorter, Rest, The Distraction Addiction.Research: Anders Ericsson (deliberate practice); reinterpreting the “10,000 hours” rule.Case contexts: Netherlands/Nordics (shorter days), Japan/Korea moves, Medibank pilots, Iceland & UAE public-sector shifts.Blue Street Capital practices: 90-minute deep-work sprints + devices-down ...
    Show More Show Less
    55 mins
  • [#13] Work School Hours: The Movement to Rebuild Work Around Life

    [#13] Work School Hours: The Movement to Rebuild Work Around Life
    Oct 22 2025

    Guest: Dr. Ellen Joan Ford, Author of #WorkSchoolHours, TEDx Speaker, and Leadership Consultant

    Episode Summary


    In this episode, Alex Gafford talks with Dr. Ellen Joan Ford, former New Zealand Army Officer, researcher, and author of #WorkSchoolHours. Together they unpack how the modern 9–5 is failing working parents and what it looks like to redesign work around real life.

    Dr. Ford shares the three core principles behind the Work School Hours movement, valuing life outside work, focusing on outputs (not hours), and enabling flexibility, and how these ideas benefit both families and businesses.

    From military leadership lessons in Antarctica to corporate case studies, this conversation explores the future of work for parents, leaders, and anyone who believes there’s a better way to work and live.

    Key Themes & Ideas


    1. Why the 9–5 Is Broken for Parents

    • The mismatch between school schedules and work hours creates impossible pressure for working families.
    • Most parents fall into one of three categories: forced out, burned out, or underpaid for part-time overload.
    • Dr. Ford’s research reveals that this “societal-wide gaslighting” punishes efficiency and it’s time to change that.

    2. The Fourth Option: Work School Hours

    • A model built on outputs, not hours.
    • Flexible, high-trust work cultures boost both productivity and retention.
    • Why guilt-free parenting and high performance are not mutually exclusive.


    3. Leadership Lessons from the Military

    • How an Antarctic mission taught Ellen the power of focusing on outcomes over hours.
    • Why output-based work makes teams more autonomous, motivated, and innovative.


    4. Flexibility Beyond the Office

    • Real-world examples of flexibility in healthcare, construction, farming, and emergency services.
    • How even shift-based industries can offer family-aligned schedules with creativity and collaboration.

    5. Why This Makes Business Sense

    • The data: flexible work drives higher retention, better recruiting, and improved well-being, all leading to stronger performance.
    • Happy people simply do better work.

    Takeaways

    • The Work School Hours movement isn’t just about parents, it’s about designing work for real life.
    • Time is our most valuable asset, and flexibility is the modern workforce’s ultimate benefit.
    • When people can thrive at home, they perform better at work.

    Resources & Links

    • Website (Book & TEDx Talk): ellenjoanford.com
    • Connect with Dr. Ford: LinkedIn – Dr. Ellen Joan Ford


    Connect with Alex: LinkedIn - Alex Gafford

    • Listen to all episodes of The 5-Hour Formula Podcast


    Next Episode

    Next up in this new series of conversations with experts reimagining work around the world, Alex Pang joins the show.
    He’s the author of The Distraction Addiction, Rest, and Shorter, and one of the leading voices in the global movement to work less and live better.
    In this all-time classic conversation, we dive into the science of rest, the 4-day week revolution, and how to design a workday that maximizes creativity, focus, and fulfillment.
    Show More Show Less
    34 mins
No reviews yet