Listen free for 30 days
-
Bringing Home the Dharma
- Awakening Right Where You Are
- Narrated by: Jack Kornfield, Edoardo Ballerini
- Length: 10 hrs and 58 mins
- Unabridged Audiobook
- Categories: Religion & Spirituality, Buddhism
Add to basket failed.
Add to wishlist failed.
Remove from wishlist failed.
Follow podcast failed
Unfollow podcast failed
Listen with a free trial
Buy Now for £23.49
No valid payment method on file.
We are sorry. We are not allowed to sell this product with the selected payment method
Listeners also enjoyed...
-
Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism
- By: Marvin Casper - editor, John Baker - editor, Chögyam Trungpa, and others
- Narrated by: Jim Gimian
- Length: 8 hrs and 50 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In this modern spiritual classic, the Tibetan meditation master Chögyam Trungpa highlights the commonest pitfall to which every aspirant on the spiritual path falls prey: what he calls spiritual materialism. The universal tendency, he shows, is to see spirituality as a process of self-improvement - the impulse to develop and refine the ego when the ego is, by nature, essentially empty. "The problem is that ego can convert anything to its own use," he said, "even spirituality."
-
-
no walk in the park
- By Paul on 21-02-20
-
Food for the Heart
- The Collected Teachings of Ajahn Chah
- By: Ajahn Chah
- Narrated by: Graeme Malcolm
- Length: 15 hrs and 21 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
This collection brings together for the first time Ajahn Chah's most powerful teachings, including those on meditation, liberation from suffering, calming the mind, enlightenment and the "living dhamma". Most of these talks have previously only been available in limited, private editions and the publication of Food for the Heart, therefore, represents a momentous occasion: the hugely increased accessibility of his words and wisdom.
-
-
Loved it!
- By Mrs Monica Roque on 15-12-17
-
On the Path to Enlightenment
- Heart Advice From the Great Tibetan Masters
- By: Matthieu Ricard, Charles Hastings - translator
- Narrated by: Edoardo Ballerini
- Length: 6 hrs and 17 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Ricard has selected and translated some of the most profound and inspiring teachings from across these traditions. The selected teachings are taken from the sources of the traditions, including the Buddha himself, Nagarjuna, Guru Rinpoche, Atisha, Shantideva, and Asanga; from great masters of the past, including Thogme Zangpo, the Fifth Dalai Lama, Milarepa, Longchenpa, and Sakya Pandita; and from contemporary masters, including the Fourteenth Dalai Lama and Mingyur Rinpoche.
-
-
this is a great book, but will have to revisit.
- By Gordon Michael on 14-10-18
-
After the Ecstasy, the Laundry
- How the Heart Grows Wise on the Spiritual Path
- By: Jack Kornfield
- Narrated by: Jack Kornfield
- Length: 9 hrs and 52 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
When does enlightenment come? At the end of the spiritual journey? Or the beginning? In After the Ecstasy, the Laundry, Jack Kornfield brings into focus the truth about satori, the awakened state of consciousness, and enlightenment practices today. The result is this extraordinary look at the hard work we all must do - the laundry - no matter how often we experience ecstatic states of consciousness through meditation and other disciplines.
-
-
Another wonderful offering from Jack Kornfield.
- By Genevieve on 05-02-17
-
Buddhism for Beginners [Jack Kornfield]
- By: Jack Kornfield
- Narrated by: Jack Kornfield
- Length: 9 hrs
- Original Recording
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Created specifically to address the questions and needs of first-time students, here is Buddhism's vast spiritual legacy, presented by one of America's leading meditation teachers.
-
-
The best audiobook I have bought so far
- By Skootaman on 02-11-09
-
In the Buddha's Words
- An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon
- By: Bhikkhu Bodhi - editor and translator
- Narrated by: Fajer Al-Kaisi
- Length: 18 hrs and 41 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
This landmark collection is the definitive introduction to the Buddha's teachings - in his own words. The American scholar-monk Bhikkhu Bodhi, whose voluminous translations have won widespread acclaim, here presents selected discourses of the Buddha from the Pali Canon, the earliest record of what the Buddha taught. Divided into 10 thematic chapters, In the Buddha's Words reveals the full scope of the Buddha's discourses, from family life and marriage to renunciation and the path of insight.
-
-
Great!
- By Devin Ashwood on 05-03-17
-
Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism
- By: Marvin Casper - editor, John Baker - editor, Chögyam Trungpa, and others
- Narrated by: Jim Gimian
- Length: 8 hrs and 50 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In this modern spiritual classic, the Tibetan meditation master Chögyam Trungpa highlights the commonest pitfall to which every aspirant on the spiritual path falls prey: what he calls spiritual materialism. The universal tendency, he shows, is to see spirituality as a process of self-improvement - the impulse to develop and refine the ego when the ego is, by nature, essentially empty. "The problem is that ego can convert anything to its own use," he said, "even spirituality."
-
-
no walk in the park
- By Paul on 21-02-20
-
Food for the Heart
- The Collected Teachings of Ajahn Chah
- By: Ajahn Chah
- Narrated by: Graeme Malcolm
- Length: 15 hrs and 21 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
This collection brings together for the first time Ajahn Chah's most powerful teachings, including those on meditation, liberation from suffering, calming the mind, enlightenment and the "living dhamma". Most of these talks have previously only been available in limited, private editions and the publication of Food for the Heart, therefore, represents a momentous occasion: the hugely increased accessibility of his words and wisdom.
-
-
Loved it!
- By Mrs Monica Roque on 15-12-17
-
On the Path to Enlightenment
- Heart Advice From the Great Tibetan Masters
- By: Matthieu Ricard, Charles Hastings - translator
- Narrated by: Edoardo Ballerini
- Length: 6 hrs and 17 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Ricard has selected and translated some of the most profound and inspiring teachings from across these traditions. The selected teachings are taken from the sources of the traditions, including the Buddha himself, Nagarjuna, Guru Rinpoche, Atisha, Shantideva, and Asanga; from great masters of the past, including Thogme Zangpo, the Fifth Dalai Lama, Milarepa, Longchenpa, and Sakya Pandita; and from contemporary masters, including the Fourteenth Dalai Lama and Mingyur Rinpoche.
-
-
this is a great book, but will have to revisit.
- By Gordon Michael on 14-10-18
-
After the Ecstasy, the Laundry
- How the Heart Grows Wise on the Spiritual Path
- By: Jack Kornfield
- Narrated by: Jack Kornfield
- Length: 9 hrs and 52 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
When does enlightenment come? At the end of the spiritual journey? Or the beginning? In After the Ecstasy, the Laundry, Jack Kornfield brings into focus the truth about satori, the awakened state of consciousness, and enlightenment practices today. The result is this extraordinary look at the hard work we all must do - the laundry - no matter how often we experience ecstatic states of consciousness through meditation and other disciplines.
-
-
Another wonderful offering from Jack Kornfield.
- By Genevieve on 05-02-17
-
Buddhism for Beginners [Jack Kornfield]
- By: Jack Kornfield
- Narrated by: Jack Kornfield
- Length: 9 hrs
- Original Recording
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Created specifically to address the questions and needs of first-time students, here is Buddhism's vast spiritual legacy, presented by one of America's leading meditation teachers.
-
-
The best audiobook I have bought so far
- By Skootaman on 02-11-09
-
In the Buddha's Words
- An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon
- By: Bhikkhu Bodhi - editor and translator
- Narrated by: Fajer Al-Kaisi
- Length: 18 hrs and 41 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
This landmark collection is the definitive introduction to the Buddha's teachings - in his own words. The American scholar-monk Bhikkhu Bodhi, whose voluminous translations have won widespread acclaim, here presents selected discourses of the Buddha from the Pali Canon, the earliest record of what the Buddha taught. Divided into 10 thematic chapters, In the Buddha's Words reveals the full scope of the Buddha's discourses, from family life and marriage to renunciation and the path of insight.
-
-
Great!
- By Devin Ashwood on 05-03-17
-
Roots of Buddhist Psychology
- By: Jack Kornfield
- Length: 8 hrs and 39 mins
- Original Recording
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
The Buddha said many times that just as the great oceans have but one taste, so do all the true teachings of the dharma: the taste of freedom. Jack Kornfield's The Roots of Buddhist Psychology is an invitation to drink deeply of these teachings; to taste the wisdom that flows from the heart of Buddhism's most useful ideas on the interior life and what brings awakening, freedom, and happiness. Jack Kornfield opens this eternal view of the mind for all listeners in this collection.
-
-
Buddha clarity for all to see
- By Iain Mackenzie on 22-02-08
-
Teachings of the Buddha
- Revised and Expanded
- By: Gil Fronsdal - editor, Jack Kornfield - editor
- Narrated by: Edoardo Ballerini, Jack Kornfield
- Length: 3 hrs and 37 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
This treasury of essential Buddhist writings draws from the most popular Indian, Tibetan, Chinese, and Japanese sources. Among the selections are some of the earliest recorded sayings of the Buddha on the practice of freedom, passages from later Indian scriptures on the perfection of wisdom, verses from Tibetan masters on the enlightened mind, and songs in praise of meditation by Zen teachers.
-
-
Sounds like the original Buddha’s teachings
- By CJ on 15-09-21
-
No Time Like the Present
- Finding Freedom and Joy Where You Are
- By: Jack Kornfield
- Narrated by: Jonathan Todd Ross, Jack Kornfield
- Length: 7 hrs and 40 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Best-selling author of A Path with Heart, Jack Kornfield invites you into a new awareness: how you can free yourself, whomever you are and whatever your circumstances. Renowned for his mindfulness practices and meditations, Jack provides the keys for opening gateways to immediate shifts in perspective and clarity of vision, allowing yourself to change course, take action or simply relax.
-
-
one of my favourite teachers.
- By sam on 01-09-19
-
Rebel Buddha
- On the Road to Freedom
- By: Dzogchen Ponlop
- Narrated by: Jonathan Davis, Dzogchen Ponlop (introduction)
- Length: 7 hrs and 21 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
There's a rebel within you. It's the part of you that already knows how to break free of fear and unhappiness. This rebel is the voice of your own awakened mind. It's your rebel buddha - the sharp, clear intelligence that resists the status quo. It wakes you up from the sleepy acceptance of your day-to-day reality and shows you the power of your enlightened nature. It's the vibrant, insightful energy that compels you to seek the truth.
-
-
The only book / audio on Buddhism you need....
- By Bryn T. on 02-05-13
-
A Path with Heart
- A Guide Through the Perils and Promises of Spiritual Life
- By: Jack Kornfield
- Narrated by: Jack Kornfield
- Length: 3 hrs and 16 mins
- Abridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Jack Kornfield's A Path with Heart has been acclaimed as the most significant book yet about American Buddhism, a definitive guide to the practice of traditional mindfulness in America today. On this audio edition, Kornfield teaches the key principles of Buddhism's cherished vipassana (insight) tradition and puts them into direct service, with the unique needs of the contemporary seeker in mind.
-
-
Enlightening guide to spiritual life
- By Amazon Customer on 07-04-13
-
Smile at Fear
- Awakening the True Heart of Bravery
- By: Chögyam Trungpa, Carolyn Rose Gimian - editor, Pema Chödrön - foreword
- Narrated by: Gabra Zackman, Karen White, Steven Crossley
- Length: 3 hrs and 59 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
Chögyam Trungpa offers us a vision of moving beyond fear to discover the innate bravery, trust, and delight in life that lies at the core of our being. Drawing on the Shambhala Buddhist teachings, he explains how we can each become a spiritual warrior: a person who faces each moment of life with openness and fearlessness. "The ultimate definition of bravery is not being afraid of who you are," writes Chögyam Trungpa. In this audiobook, he offers the insights and strategies to claim victory over fear.
-
-
so good
- By Libby from London on 20-05-21
-
The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching
- Transforming Suffering into Peace, Joy, and Liberation
- By: Thích Nhất Hạnh
- Narrated by: René Ruiz
- Length: 9 hrs and 22 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In The Heart of the Buddha's Teaching, Thich Nhat Hanh introduces us to the core teachings of Buddhism and shows us that the Buddha's teachings are accessible and applicable to our daily lives. With poetry and clarity, Nhat Hanh imparts comforting wisdom about the nature of suffering and its role in creating compassion, love, and joy - all qualities of enlightenment.
-
-
Excellent overview
- By Anonymous User on 12-02-20
-
The Art of Living
- Peace and Freedom in the Here and Now
- By: Thích Nhất Hạnh
- Narrated by: Edoardo Ballerini, Gabra Zackman
- Length: 5 hrs and 1 min
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In troubled times there is an urgency to understand ourselves and our world. We have so many questions, and they tug at us night and day, consciously and unconsciously. In this important volume, Zen master Thich Nhat Hanh - one of the most revered spiritual leaders in the world today - reveals an art of living in mindfulness that helps us answer life's deepest questions and experience the happiness and freedom we desire.
-
-
this was excellent
- By Amazon Customer on 13-03-20
-
Eight Mindful Steps to Happiness
- Walking the Path of the Buddha
- By: Bhante Henepola Gunarantana
- Narrated by: Julian Elfer
- Length: 9 hrs and 41 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
In the same engaging style that has endeared him to listeners of Mindfulness in Plain English, Bhante Gunaratana delves deeply into each step of the Buddha's most profound teaching on bringing an end to suffering: the noble eightfold path. With generous and specific advice, Eight Mindful Steps to Happiness offers skillful ways to handle anger, to find right livelihood, and to cultivate loving-friendliness in relationships with parents, children, and partners, as well as tools to overcome all the mental hindrances that prevent happiness.
-
-
It worked for me better as a book than an audio
- By FXLXOX on 29-01-21
-
Buddhism Plain and Simple
- By: Steve Hagen
- Narrated by: William Hope
- Length: 4 hrs and 58 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
The observations and insights of the Buddha are practical and eminently down to earth, dealing exclusively with awareness in the here and now. Buddhism Plain and Simple offers listeners these fundamental teachings, stripped of cultural trappings that have accumulated around Buddhism over the past 25 centuries.
-
-
I can't recommend this book enough
- By Kenneth on 13-02-18
-
Being Ram Dass
- By: Rameshwar Das, Ram Dass
- Narrated by: Rameshwar Das
- Length: 18 hrs and 1 min
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
From Harvard psychology professor Richard Alpert to psychedelic and spiritual icon, Ram Dass tells here, for the first time, the full arc of his remarkable life. Populated by a cast of luminaries, this intimate memoir chronicles Ram Dass’ life across nine decades of cultural and spiritual transformation that resonate with us to this day.
-
-
Amazing !!!
- By Cristina Iesescu on 24-01-21
-
The Bhagavad Gita
- By: Eknath Easwaran
- Narrated by: Paul Bazely
- Length: 8 hrs and 54 mins
- Unabridged
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
The Bhagavad Gita, "The Song of the Lord", is the best known of all the Indian scriptures, and Easwaran's reliable and accessible version has consistently been the best-selling translation. Easwaran's introduction places the Gita in its historical setting and brings out the universality and timelessness of its teachings. Chapter introductions give clear explanations of key concepts in that chapter.
-
-
insightful.
- By Teresa Ray on 07-12-18
Summary
If you want to find inner peace and wisdom, you don't need to move to an ashram or monastery. Your life, just as it is, is the perfect place to be. Jack Kornfield, one of America's most respected Buddhist teachers, shares this and other key lessons gleaned from more than 40 years of committed study and practice. Topics include:
- How to cultivate loving-kindness, compassion, joy, and equanimity
- Conscious parenting
- Spirituality and sexuality
- The way of forgiveness
- Committing ourselves to healing the suffering in the world
Bringing Home the Dharma includes simple meditation practices for awakening our buddha nature - our wise and understanding heart - amid the ups and downs of our ordinary daily lives.
More from the same
What listeners say about Bringing Home the Dharma
Average customer ratingsReviews - Please select the tabs below to change the source of reviews.
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- M. D. Wilson
- 08-02-16
my favourite of all books
it's a book for life.. I return to it Timè and time again.
a wealth of wisdom and insight.A wonderful comforting reader in Eduardo Ballarini.
7 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- slipperychimp
- 23-05-19
Worth it
I enjoyed the balance between emphasising actual practice, and the discussion of such things as the stages of meditation. The book includes 3 chapters at the end describing how to undertake 3 different forms of meditation (only a few minutes each) which was great.
I did feel like there is an over-emphasis on mindfulness meditation and case studies though, I would have liked to see (well, heard) more discussion on the Eightfold Path and in particular 'right livelihood'; since it seems such a significant part of how to actually start implementing the Dharma. Whereas there is a fair bit of time dedicated to 'sexual misconduct' and research Kornfield has undertaken regarding physical relationships between Dharma instructors and their students. This was albeit quite interesting, but I thought a bit outside the scope of the works and wasn't very relevant to me personally. That's why I've rated it 4* overall + story, that said.... it's still 100 times better than The Power of Now by Tolle.
4 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Parker
- 12-11-19
struggled
I just really struggled with this book. I can't comment too much on the content as I'm a newbie to the topic of the book. maybe I should've started with a different book
3 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Annie
- 10-06-18
Worthy
Struggled with the narration. In spite of the rich complexities of the subject and the seemingly endless achievements of the author, the tone and rhythm of the voice is unfortunately the main thing I will take away from this book. Hopefully other things may rise to the surface later but I was relieved to finally finish this and might just have slept through some of it.
2 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Gary
- 19-04-20
Bringing Home the Dharma
While the content is in literal terms wonderful the narration totally undermines the book.
It i unfortunate that either Kornfield or some one able to communicate with his level of sensibility was unable to narrate this book.
1 person found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Judy Reeves
- 05-09-18
Inspirational book.
A truly wonderful book, full of wisdom.
I would recommend it to anyone who wants to open their mind and heart.
1 person found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- SJRod
- 02-12-17
A real favorite
A new addition to the favorites section within my audible library. Taking apart, explaining and the rebuilding each aspect of the Dharma in real life.
1 person found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Amazon Customer
- 16-09-17
Inspired,moved and touched
As a first time reader on this topic I must say what a great book pointing out the simplicity of life when a certain approach is taken.I love the power of forgiveness and the act of living in the present time,pushes you to open up your inner perspective regarding the planet and all living things .....
1 person found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Chris
- 25-10-16
Open minded
Very wise & open minded. Bringing light to subjects that need addressing, sex, drugs (psychedelics) etc.
3 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story
- Stephen O'Brien
- 19-05-22
Just a beautiful book
Such a wonderful, deep, meaningful and honest book. I liked the narrator on this occasion, despite previously finding his narration irritating in other books. This book is well written and expansive. It won’t be for everyone, but I found it surprisingly humorous, engaging and at times enlightening.
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story

- Roger
- 18-05-17
Not Read by Jack Kornfield
I love Jack Kornfield. I have read a number of his books and have recommended "A Path With Heart" to more people than I can remember. That said, I cannot recommend this book for several reasons. First, only the introduction is read by Jack Kornfield. In spiritual books, it is so important to have the right voice, otherwise, it can come across as preachy, condescending or phony. If this had been read by Jack, I might have liked it, but this was painful to listen to. He also quotes the concept known as RAIN, which was coined by Tara Brach, without giving her credit. If you are looking for a good book by Jack, stick with "A Path With Heart" or "After the Ecstasy, The Laundry". There's nothing new here and not worth the time to listen.
21 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story

- mikesparky
- 19-03-18
Great book, narrator induces nerd rage
What did you love best about Bringing Home the Dharma?
The content is great!
What three words best describe Jack Kornfield and Edoardo Ballerini ’s voice?
The narrator has a great voice and is very pleasant to listen to. That being said, something was off for me and I found it difficult to concentrate on the material at times. I realized the narrator, while sounding great, was not reading as if he was processing the material. He uses the same ebb and flow of intonation for everything he reads. The result (for me at any rate) is that it's pretty difficult to listen to and a little hypnotic. I can easily imagine the narrator reading the following sentences with the same inflection: "I noticed a beautiful rainbow and it made happy". vs "I noticed my dog fluffykins was dead and it made me sad." To top it off he is also using an aggressively soothing voice. I'm assuming to remind us that this is a book more or less about meditation. But I just keep thinking, "ok ok I get it, WE'RE CALM HERE". While I would have read this book quickly, with these two peeves in play I have to take breaks or suffer from nerd rage. In summary, I probably just have issues, but great content.
9 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story

- Louise
- 12-07-15
Excellent
filled with reverence and love. thank you Jack for these teachings I really enjoyed this book
7 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story

- Tamara
- 06-06-15
Perfection. Sheer audible/literary Perfection.
The content of this book will change the life of anyone who really hears it, who truly "reads" it.
The content of this book is only matched with the glorious sound of its main narrator: Edoardo Ballerini. Undoubtedly the most profound book I've ever come across, & certainly the most influential, 2nd only to the Holy Bible, from which I believe. However, the Dharma, as you'll learn, can be lived, & breathed, & practiced in all of us, through all of us. Upon completing this work, I immediately began listening to it again.
Simply beautiful. What are you holding on to?
14 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story

- Amazon Customer
- 07-06-15
Practice is the Key!
Bring home the Dharma and share it with the world. Thanks for another beautiful teaching.
5 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story

- Evidence
- 26-03-15
I don't know what to say.
So professional. Extremely relevant.
The insight on adult and children's perspectives is worth the price of admission, alone.
The detailed accounts of the spiritual retreats is also helpful for mediating on purpose beyond observing awareness.
You are gonna get tools for myriad of psychological constructs.
If you are considering picking this up. Do it. What's fifteen dollars, anyways?
14 people found this helpful
-
Overall

- Leah C. Chevalier
- 29-05-16
amazing
Beautiful insightful book, no matter your spiritual path. I will definitely relisten to this book.
2 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story

- Stanley
- 11-02-15
Learn about 2,500 years of collected Wisdom
History and Tradition of the various paths towards Enlightenment/Nirvana. The author's specialty is teaching to Americans without the religion parts Buddhism.
4 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story

- Mystery Fan
- 30-03-17
Mindfulness 101
This should have been a pamphlet with two appendices re specific meditations at the end.
3 people found this helpful
-
Overall
-
Performance
-
Story

- NebSoilDoc
- 16-02-17
Do something and sit there!
Other reviews explain that this a compilation of previous essays. A fact I missed if it was in the introduction. That explains a lot about the 'flow' the book. Putting that aside the book gives a mixture of biography and analysis with some hints about practice. I liked the narrator's voice, it was calming and soothing. It made me realize that there was a wealth of variety in Buddhist practice and described the goals of Buddhist practice.
1 person found this helpful