A leader who thinks they have all the answers is not leading. They are performing certainty, and that performance has a price.

Tyler Chisholm is the founder of clearmotive, the author of *Curious as Hell: Leading and Growing with Curiosity*, and the host of this new podcast series. In this first episode, fellow podcaster and former journalist Leah Sarich turns the mic on Tyler to surface the origin story behind the book, the philosophy behind the show, and the very specific, very costly moments that convinced him certainty is the real risk in leadership.

What emerges is a candid account of how a leader who once believed he had all the answers learned, painfully and more than once, what that certainty actually cost. Tyler walks through the pool cue story from when he was 19, the failed business sale from his early 30s, the fixed vs. growth scorecard he built during COVID, and the results he has seen at clearmotive, including a significant increase in profit margin with 10 fewer full-time staff.

Key themes from this episode:

Why certainty, not ignorance, is the most dangerous thing a leader can carry into a room. The distinction is uncomfortable, but Tyler makes it plainly: you can be uncertain about something you know nothing about, or you can be certain about something you have misunderstood completely, and the second one is the one that will cost you.

What the leadership 360 actually revealed, and why the feedback "Tyler, you're showing up asking questions you already know the answer to" landed harder than any performance review. The gap between performing curiosity and practising it is where most leaders quietly live.

How the facts vs. feelings framework cuts through the noise in difficult meetings. When Tyler walks through this exercise, the point becomes clear: most of what leaders call a problem is actually a feeling they have not yet examined.

What psychological safety actually means in practice. Not a feelings discussion. Not a culture initiative. The freedom to dissent, and the moment-by-moment test of how a leader treats the person who uses it.

Why self-curiosity is the only legitimate starting point, and what it looks like to build it through low-tech, deliberate practice.

How Microsoft's transformation under Satya Nadella illustrates the business case for curious leadership at scale, from billion-dollar to trillion-dollar company.

Chapters:

0:00 — Introduction

2:37 — How podcasting opened the door to curiosity

7:28 — The risk of certainty: season 1 theme

10:45 — The rutabaga: what is on the book cover and why

15:33 — The pool cue story: an early lesson in not pretending

18:53 — When certainty cost everything: the failed business sale

21:16 — The fixed vs. growth scorecard

23:36 — Why the current leadership model is breaking down

26:47 — Curiosity as a cure for leader burnout

29:07 — What curiosity looks like on a Wednesday

33:27 — Listening as the engine of curiosity

38:55 — Psychological safety: the freedom to dissent

47:00 — Curiosity checkpoints

47:24 — Real results at clearmotive

52:37 — The Microsoft story

52:52 — What Tyler hopes leaders take away

54:24 — What to expect from Curious as Hell

Connect with Leah Sarich

Learn more about clearmotive

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