Joe Pine is one of the most influential business thinkers of the past generation. After decades at IBM, he co founded Strategic Horizons LLP and introduced ideas that reshaped modern strategy. His 1999 book The Experience Economy reframed competition around memorable experiences rather than goods and services, influencing fields from customer experience to service design.

In his latest book, The Transformation Economy, Joe argues that even experiences are no longer enough. The highest form of economic value is transformation. Businesses must guide customers to achieve their aspirations. They must focus not on what they deliver, but on who the customer becomes.

In this wide ranging conversation, Joe explains why he waited more than twenty years to write this book, how concepts like experience and CRM have been diluted over time, and why the purpose of business is ultimately to enable human flourishing. He also explores how AI can be harnessed to elevate transformation rather than simply automate efficiency.

This episode is essential listening for senior leaders, strategists, and transformation professionals who want to rethink value creation in a world defined by rising expectations and technological acceleration.

Learn more: https://ebullient.com/podcast/transformation-economy/