In this episode of Becoming Existential, I sit down with Professor Ernesto Spinelli — one of the founders of existential therapy in the UK, author of foundational texts including The Interpreted World and Practising Existential Therapy, and one of the most thoughtful voices in the field globally.

WE DISCUSS:

[02:00] "An old man with a young mind" — Ernesto on aging and unfinished projects

[05:00] How he "fell into" existential therapy

[08:00] Reading Husserl for the first time: "What is this?"

[10:00] The birth of existential therapy in the UK

[14:00] Curiosity as the heart of good therapy

[16:00] "Psychotherapy is seen as treatment rather than engagement — that's been a terrible error"

[18:00] Explanatory vs. understanding-focused psychology

[25:00] "We have honest conversations" — Ernesto's simplified approach

[28:00] What your symptoms might be giving you

[29:00] The question that changes everything: "Would you miss it?"

[34:00] AI therapy: why people find it empathic

[37:00] "Like a super person-centered therapist"

[38:00] "I find that terrifying" — but also revealing

[40:00] Sartre on conflict and the possibility of constructive engagement

[45:00] The "dictatorship of I" and why relatedness matters

[50:00] Advice for therapists-in-training: "Stay with what drew you here"

[52:00] "It's like a poem that finally says what you always felt"

[54:00] Writing novels, cinema, and the road not taken

KEY QUOTES FROM THIS EPISODE:

"If you're not genuinely curious about your client, you won't be a good therapist."

"Psychotherapy is seen as a form of treatment rather than a form of engagement and relation. That's been a terrible error."

"What mostly happens in my engagements with my clients is that we have honest conversations."

"Is your problem giving you anything worthwhile? And if you were to lose it — would you miss it?"

"People are turning to AI therapy because they're getting something from it that they're not getting from day-to-day human relations."

"The world is increasingly dominated by a kind of dictatorship of I."

ABOUT THE GUEST:

Ernesto Spinelli, PhD is an existential psychotherapist, psychologist, a Fellow of the British Psychological Society, former Chair of the Society for Existential Analysis, and author whose work has consistently challenged psychotherapy’s reliance on diagnosis, technique, and cure. A former Academic Dean at Regent’s University London, he is known for advancing existential-phenomenological psychotherapy through his emphasis on relatedness, uncertainty, and therapy as an act of understanding rather than intervention.

ABOUT THE HOST:

I'm Max — a psychologist, counsellor, and trainee existential therapist at the New School of Psychotherapy and Counselling (NSPC) / Middlesex University in London.

After 25 years in business, I'm now exploring what it means to become a therapist — and what that journey reveals about being human.

This podcast documents that unfolding.

📚 Books:

The Interpreted World: An Introduction to Phenomenological Psychology

https://a.co/d/eMQmy3y

Practising Existential Psychotherapy: The Relational World

https://a.co/d/hljWmsb

Tales of Un-Knowing: Therapeutic Encounters from an Existential Perspective

https://a.co/d/43q1StD

The Mirror and the Hammer: Challenging Orthodoxies in Psychotherapeutic Thought

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B014FVQY72?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&ref_=cm_sw_r_ffobk_cp_ud_dp_3F1YW0TCAYD8NP57XDYF

🔗 Links:

Ernesto Spinelli & Associates

http://www.plexworld.com

Society for Existential Analysis:

https://existentialanalysis.org.uk

CONNECT:

🎥 Watch the full video interview on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4u39LZ_M3Uk

📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maxkarlintherapy/

🌐 Website: maxkarlin.com

📧 Contact: https://linktr.ee/maxkarlin

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