What happens when two people love each other, but keep getting stuck in the same painful pattern?

In this episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop is joined by Kenny Sanderfer, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified Emotionally Focused Therapy trainer, supervisor, and therapist, founder of EFT Tennessee, and co-author with Dr. Sue Johnson of Created for Connection: The Hold Me Tight Guide for Christian Couples.

Together, Dr. Trevor and Kenny explore attachment science, emotionally focused therapy, emotional safety, relational cycles, faith, and the deep human longing to be seen, heard, known, and securely connected.

Kenny shares how his own journey through agriculture, missions, ministry, counseling, and his friendship and work with Dr. Sue Johnson shaped his passion for helping couples understand love not as a bargain, but as a bond. He also explains why attachment is more than a theory — it is a science of how our closest relationships shape the way we experience ourselves, others, and connection.

This conversation is deeply practical and hopeful. Dr. Trevor and Kenny talk about why couples get caught in negative cycles, why the other person is not the problem, and how the cycle itself often becomes the problem. They discuss emotional safety, protection, pursuit, withdrawal, repair, vulnerability, and the kind of conversations that help people move toward secure connection instead of deeper disconnection.

In this episode, we discuss:

• What Emotionally Focused Therapy is and why attachment science matters
• Why relational wounds are healed in relationships
• How emotional safety allows us to be more fully ourselves with the people we love
• Why couples often get stuck in the same painful conversations
• How protective patterns like pursuing, withdrawing, attacking, or shutting down develop
• Why “the person is not the problem — the cycle is the problem”
• How vulnerability can interrupt negative relational patterns
• Why repair, restoration, and reconciliation are deeply connected to God’s design for relationship
• How faith and attachment science help us understand connection with God, ourselves, and others
• Why it is never too early to strengthen the foundation of a relationship

A key takeaway from this episode:

Relational pain often forms in relationship — and healing also happens in relationship.

Kenny reminds us that we were created for connection, and that secure bonds help us face life, repair rupture, and move toward one another with greater courage, safety, and love.

Learn more about Kenny Sanderfer and his resources at kennethsanderfer.com.

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, The Deeper by Design Podcast, Renovi Relational Therapy, marriage intensives, leadership care, and additional resources at trevorhislop.com.

The Deeper by Design Podcast is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify.

What do we do when being honest doesn’t feel safe?

In this solo episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop begins a new series through the six movements of the Renovi Flow from Renovi Relational Therapy: Reveal, Remember, Reframe, Repair, Rehearse, and Renew.

This episode focuses on the first movement: Reveal — the practice of naming what’s really happening beneath the surface with wisdom, safety, humility, and care.

Reveal begins with a simple but powerful idea: we can’t renew what we refuse to reveal.

But Reveal is not reckless honesty. It’s not emotional dumping, blame, or forced vulnerability. For many of us, honesty has not always felt safe. Maybe opening up led to shame, dismissal, conflict, or pain. So we learned to hide, minimize, defend, shut down, or keep the peace on the outside while losing peace on the inside.

Through the story of Genesis 3, clinical examples, and practical reflection, Trevor explores why hiding is such a human response — and how truth, when held with care, can become the beginning of healing, repair, and renewed connection.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to slow down and ask:

What’s really going on here?
What am I feeling?
What am I trying to protect?
What truth have I not yet been able to name?

Dr. Trevor also introduces the Reveal Practice Worksheet, a practical RRT resource built around four simple movements: Settle. Sense. Reveal. Respond.

You’ll also hear about the Reveal Triangle, which helps you reflect on:

What happened?
What did I feel?
What did I protect?
What needs to be revealed?

A key takeaway from this episode: Reveal is truth held with safety, wisdom, and care.

Sometimes the first step toward deeper connection is simply being able to say: “Here’s where I really am.”

Download the Reveal Practice Worksheet here:
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a237334b-8e7b-4c39-a748-589804f62337/downloads/1dbb5706-c1cf-4c50-81e6-9836cc0efe1c/reveal-practice-guide.pdf?ver=1789351467074

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, Renovi Relational Therapy, marriage intensives, leadership care, and additional resources at trevorhislop.com.

The Deeper by Design Podcast is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify.

Why do we react the way we do in relationships? Why do two people experience the same moment so differently? Why does one person pursue while another withdraws? Why do our fears, assumptions, and protective strategies sometimes take over before we even realize what is happening?

In this episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop is joined by Beth and Jeff McCord, founders of Your Enneagram Coach, a gospel-centered platform helping people understand the Enneagram with clarity, compassion, and real-life application.

Beth and Jeff are the authors of multiple books and resources, including Becoming Us, More Than Your Number, Enneagram for Moms, and a full series of Enneagram journals. Through their work, they help individuals, couples, parents, and leaders understand what is happening beneath the surface so they can grow in self-awareness, compassion, and healthier connection.

In this honest and practical conversation, Beth and Jeff share how the Enneagram first helped them find language for the patterns in their own marriage. Together, they explore how the Enneagram can help us understand not just what we do, but why we do it.

Trevor, Beth, and Jeff discuss core motivations, levels of health, defensive strategies, trauma, attachment, co-regulation, marriage, parenting, and the ongoing work of becoming more whole in Christ.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why the Enneagram is more than a personality test
• How core motivations shape thoughts, feelings, and behaviors
• How to use the Enneagram as a tool for growth instead of a label, excuse, sword, or shield
• Why self-awareness should lead to compassion and responsibility
• How trauma and the nervous system shape relational reactions
• How Beth’s deeper trauma work changed the way she understood herself and her marriage
• How Internal Family Systems and the Enneagram come together in More Than Your Number
• Why one person’s healing work can impact the whole relationship
• The power of co-regulation in marriage, parenting, and close relationships

A key takeaway from this conversation is that self-awareness is not meant to become self-protection. It is meant to help us see more clearly, love more wisely, and relate more honestly.

Used well, the Enneagram becomes a tool for compassion, growth, and transformation. Learn more about Beth and Jeff McCord and their resources at yourenneagramcoach.com.

Free resources mentioned in this episode:

Enneagram Origins:
yourenneagramcoach.com/origins

Core Motivations PDF:
yourenneagramcoach.com/core-motivations

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, The Deeper by Design Podcast, Renovi Relational Therapy, marriage intensives, leadership care, and additional resources at trevorhislop.com.

The Deeper by Design Podcast is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify. New episodes release every Tuesday.

Why do we keep repeating patterns we know are not helping? Why do we pull away when we actually want closeness? Why do we become defensive when we want to be understood? Why can we have insight, self-awareness, and even deep faith — and still find ourselves stuck in the same relational cycle?

In this solo episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop introduces one of the foundational frameworks behind Renovi Relational Therapy, or RRT: The Renovi Flow.

The Renovi Flow is a practical pathway for relational renewal built around six movements: Reveal. Remember. Reframe. Repair. Rehearse. Renew.

Dr. Trevor shares how this framework developed through years of ministry, clinical care, marriage intensives, and leadership consulting — sitting with couples, individuals, pastors, families, and teams who genuinely wanted to change but often found that insight alone was not enough.

This episode explores why lasting change is more than understanding the problem. It requires truth, story, meaning, repair, practice, and renewal over time.

In this episode, Dr. Trevor discusses:

• Why people often get stuck because “the pattern has become stronger than their intention”
• The meaning of Renovi from the Latin renovare — to renew, restore, or make new
• The difference between restoration, reconciliation, and renewal
• Why insight matters, but practice is what helps us walk into change
• How protection often begins as a solution before it becomes a problem
• Why repair is different from simply saying “I’m sorry”
• How repeated practice helps create new relational patterns
• Why renewal is not perfection, but a growing capacity to notice, return, repair, and reconnect

The six movements of the Renovi Flow:

Reveal — Tell the truth about where you actually are.
Remember — Understand how your story shaped your survival.
Reframe — Learn to see with truer eyes.
Repair — Heal what has happened between us.
Rehearse — Practice the new way until it becomes more available.
Renew — Live more from your design than from your wounds.

Download the Renovi Flow reflection document here:
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a237334b-8e7b-4c39-a748-589804f62337/downloads/b6aa0901-36ff-404a-b35c-c2114d619688/Renovi_Flow.pdf?ver=1788122448399

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, Renovi Relational Therapy, marriage intensives, leadership care, and additional resources at trevorhislop.com.

The Deeper by Design Podcast is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify. New episodes release every Tuesday.

In this episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop sits down with Julie Baumgardner, a marriage and family educator, speaker, and host of Marriage on the Daily with Julie B.

Julie brings decades of experience helping couples build stronger, healthier marriages through faith-based, research-informed relationship education. In this conversation, she shares how her personal story, her parents’ divorce, and her own 37-year marriage to Jay have shaped her passion for helping couples strengthen their relationship before they end up “in the ditch.”

Together, Trevor and Julie explore why strong marriages are built through daily choices, honest conversations, emotional safety, spiritual grounding, and intentional rhythms of connection. They talk about the importance of the first ten years of marriage, how couples can normalize struggle without normalizing disconnection, and why conflict is not something to avoid—but something to approach with humility, curiosity, and care.

Julie also shares practical tools for couples, including the importance of “attacking the issue” instead of attacking each other and her four points of connectedness for building connection throughout the day.

This episode is for couples who want to build a stronger foundation, navigate conflict with more wisdom, and practice lasting love on the daily.

Trevor and Julie discuss why prevention matters in marriage and relationship education, how early pain can become part of a deeper calling, why the first ten years of marriage are so foundational, how faith shapes the way we see and love our spouse, how emotional safety creates space for hard conversations, and the importance of curiosity, humility, and repair.

You can connect with Julie Baumgardner through Marriage on the Daily with Julie B., available on Spotify, YouTube, and Apple Podcasts. You can also learn more at https://marriageonthedaily.com.

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, The Deeper by Design Podcast, Renovi Relational Therapy, marriage intensives, leadership care, and additional resources at https://trevorhislop.com.

The Deeper by Design Podcast is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify. New episodes release every Tuesday.

Episode 3: The Map of Deeper Connection: Understanding the Six Dimensions of Relationship

In this episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop introduces one of the foundational tools behind his clinical and relational work: The Relational Funnel.

The Relational Funnel helps us understand the six dimensions of connection and why relationships often move from more surface-level connection toward deeper, more vulnerable connection. It also highlights one of the most important realities of relational health: connection continues with the presence of safety, and protection happens in the absence of safety.

Trevor explains why the funnel has become a signature part of his work and how it helped shape the development of Renovi Relational Therapy. He also connects the framework to the heart of Deeper by Design: we are designed by God for deep connection, and we can design deeper connection through intentional practice.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why the Relational Funnel is part of the Deeper by Design logo
• How connection deepens through six interconnected dimensions
• Why emotional safety is essential for deeper vulnerability
• The difference between surface-level connection and deeper relational intimacy
• How protection shows up when safety is missing
• Why not every relationship is meant to move to the deepest level
• How to reflect on where connection is strongest and where it feels limited
  

The six dimensions of the Relational Funnel are:

1. Physical — shared presence
2. Experiential — shared experience
3. Intellectual — shared thoughts, ideas, and opinions
4. Emotional — shared feelings, fears, and longings
5. Spiritual — shared meaning, values, and purpose
6. Aspirational — shared hopes, dreams, and future
   

This episode is for anyone who wants to better understand relational depth, emotional safety, connection, attachment, communication, spiritual formation, leadership health, marriage, family systems, and the patterns that help relationships move from protection toward connection.

View the Relational Funnel visual:
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a237334b-8e7b-4c39-a748-589804f62337/downloads/1e079d42-19a4-4f4a-837c-629ec7f4a5c7/Relationa%20Funnel.png?ver=1786409540334

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, Renovi Relational Therapy, and additional resources at:
trevorhislop.com

Episode 2: Communication Styles, Connection, and the PATHS Framework with Jason VanRuler

Why do we communicate the way we do—and why do our best intentions sometimes still lead to misunderstanding, conflict, or disconnection?

In this episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop sits down with therapist, author, coach, and speaker Jason VanRuler to talk about his new book on communication styles and the PATHS framework.

Together, Trevor and Jason explore how communication is about more than words. Our communication is shaped by our personality, story, needs, fears, stress responses, and desire for connection. When we understand our natural communication style, we can begin to recognize the patterns that help us connect and the patterns that may unintentionally create distance.

This conversation is for anyone who wants to grow in self-awareness, communicate with more clarity and empathy, and build deeper, healthier relationships at home, at work, in leadership, in friendship, and in everyday life.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why communication is often about what is happening beneath the surface
• The five PATHS communication styles
• How our strengths can shift under pressure
• The needs and motivations behind the way we communicate
• How to move from reaction to intentional connection
• Practical ways to communicate with greater honesty, empathy, and clarity

If you have ever thought, “Why do we keep misunderstanding each other?” or “I wish I knew how to say this better,” this episode will help you name what is happening and take a more intentional next step toward connection.

Learn more about Jason VanRuler and his resources at jasonvr.com.

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, The Deeper by Design Podcast, and additional resources at trevorhislop.com.

Deeper by Design Podcast | Faith, Relationship Science, Emotional Health, Attachment, and Deeper Connection

Welcome to the first episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast with Dr. Trevor Hislop — where faith meets the science and practice of connection.

In this opening episode, Trevor introduces the heart of the podcast, shares part of his personal and professional story, and casts a clear vision for where it is going. The central message is simple: we are designed by God for deep connection, and we can design deeper connection with others through intentional practice.

This episode explores why “everything is relational” — our faith, identity, emotional health, relationships, leadership, patterns, pain, and healing. Trevor also offers a brief teaching on how relational conflict often reveals deeper needs, protective patterns, and the invitation to move from protection toward connection.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why we are designed by God for deep connection
• How deeper connection can be built through intentional practice
• Why relationship struggles are often patterns, not just problems
• The movement from protection to connection
• How faith, psychology, attachment science, and emotional health work together
• What to expect from future episodes of The Deeper by Design Podcast

If you are interested in relationships, emotional health, spiritual formation, attachment science, marriage and family therapy, leadership health, communication, repair, and practical tools for building deeper connection, this podcast is for you.

Learn more, access resources, and connect with Trevor at:
trevorhislop.com

Subscribe for future episodes of The Deeper by Design Podcast — conversations and teaching designed to help you build deeper, healthier, more honest, and more secure connections.

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