What happens when two people love each other, but keep getting stuck in the same painful pattern?

In this episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop is joined by Kenny Sanderfer, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified Emotionally Focused Therapy trainer, supervisor, and therapist, founder of EFT Tennessee, and co-author with Dr. Sue Johnson of Created for Connection: The Hold Me Tight Guide for Christian Couples.

Together, Dr. Trevor and Kenny explore attachment science, emotionally focused therapy, emotional safety, relational cycles, faith, and the deep human longing to be seen, heard, known, and securely connected.

Kenny shares how his own journey through agriculture, missions, ministry, counseling, and his friendship and work with Dr. Sue Johnson shaped his passion for helping couples understand love not as a bargain, but as a bond. He also explains why attachment is more than a theory — it is a science of how our closest relationships shape the way we experience ourselves, others, and connection.

This conversation is deeply practical and hopeful. Dr. Trevor and Kenny talk about why couples get caught in negative cycles, why the other person is not the problem, and how the cycle itself often becomes the problem. They discuss emotional safety, protection, pursuit, withdrawal, repair, vulnerability, and the kind of conversations that help people move toward secure connection instead of deeper disconnection.

In this episode, we discuss:

• What Emotionally Focused Therapy is and why attachment science matters
• Why relational wounds are healed in relationships
• How emotional safety allows us to be more fully ourselves with the people we love
• Why couples often get stuck in the same painful conversations
• How protective patterns like pursuing, withdrawing, attacking, or shutting down develop
• Why “the person is not the problem — the cycle is the problem”
• How vulnerability can interrupt negative relational patterns
• Why repair, restoration, and reconciliation are deeply connected to God’s design for relationship
• How faith and attachment science help us understand connection with God, ourselves, and others
• Why it is never too early to strengthen the foundation of a relationship

A key takeaway from this episode:

Relational pain often forms in relationship — and healing also happens in relationship.

Kenny reminds us that we were created for connection, and that secure bonds help us face life, repair rupture, and move toward one another with greater courage, safety, and love.

Learn more about Kenny Sanderfer and his resources at kennethsanderfer.com.

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, The Deeper by Design Podcast, Renovi Relational Therapy, marriage intensives, leadership care, and additional resources at trevorhislop.com.

The Deeper by Design Podcast is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify.

What do we do when being honest doesn’t feel safe?

In this solo episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop begins a new series through the six movements of the Renovi Flow from Renovi Relational Therapy: Reveal, Remember, Reframe, Repair, Rehearse, and Renew.

This episode focuses on the first movement: Reveal — the practice of naming what’s really happening beneath the surface with wisdom, safety, humility, and care.

Reveal begins with a simple but powerful idea: we can’t renew what we refuse to reveal.

But Reveal is not reckless honesty. It’s not emotional dumping, blame, or forced vulnerability. For many of us, honesty has not always felt safe. Maybe opening up led to shame, dismissal, conflict, or pain. So we learned to hide, minimize, defend, shut down, or keep the peace on the outside while losing peace on the inside.

Through the story of Genesis 3, clinical examples, and practical reflection, Trevor explores why hiding is such a human response — and how truth, when held with care, can become the beginning of healing, repair, and renewed connection.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to slow down and ask:

What’s really going on here?
What am I feeling?
What am I trying to protect?
What truth have I not yet been able to name?

Dr. Trevor also introduces the Reveal Practice Worksheet, a practical RRT resource built around four simple movements: Settle. Sense. Reveal. Respond.

You’ll also hear about the Reveal Triangle, which helps you reflect on:

What happened?
What did I feel?
What did I protect?
What needs to be revealed?

A key takeaway from this episode: Reveal is truth held with safety, wisdom, and care.

Sometimes the first step toward deeper connection is simply being able to say: “Here’s where I really am.”

Download the Reveal Practice Worksheet here:
https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a237334b-8e7b-4c39-a748-589804f62337/downloads/1dbb5706-c1cf-4c50-81e6-9836cc0efe1c/reveal-practice-guide.pdf?ver=1789351467074

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, Renovi Relational Therapy, marriage intensives, leadership care, and additional resources at trevorhislop.com.

The Deeper by Design Podcast is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify.

Why do we react the way we do in relationships? Why do two people experience the same moment so differently? Why does one person pursue while another withdraws? Why do our fears, assumptions, and protective strategies sometimes take over before we even realize what is happening?

In this episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop is joined by Beth and Jeff McCord, founders of Your Enneagram Coach, a gospel-centered platform helping people understand the Enneagram with clarity, compassion, and real-life application.

Beth and Jeff are the authors of multiple books and resources, including Becoming Us, More Than Your Number, Enneagram for Moms, and a full series of Enneagram journals. Through their work, they help individuals, couples, parents, and leaders understand what is happening beneath the surface so they can grow in self-awareness, compassion, and healthier connection.

In this honest and practical conversation, Beth and Jeff share how the Enneagram first helped them find language for the patterns in their own marriage. Together, they explore how the Enneagram can help us understand not just what we do, but why we do it.

Trevor, Beth, and Jeff discuss core motivations, levels of health, defensive strategies, trauma, attachment, co-regulation, marriage, parenting, and the ongoing work of becoming more whole in Christ.

In this episode, we discuss:

• Why the Enneagram is more than a personality test
• How core motivations shape thoughts, feelings, and behaviors
• How to use the Enneagram as a tool for growth instead of a label, excuse, sword, or shield
• Why self-awareness should lead to compassion and responsibility
• How trauma and the nervous system shape relational reactions
• How Beth’s deeper trauma work changed the way she understood herself and her marriage
• How Internal Family Systems and the Enneagram come together in More Than Your Number
• Why one person’s healing work can impact the whole relationship
• The power of co-regulation in marriage, parenting, and close relationships

A key takeaway from this conversation is that self-awareness is not meant to become self-protection. It is meant to help us see more clearly, love more wisely, and relate more honestly.

Used well, the Enneagram becomes a tool for compassion, growth, and transformation. Learn more about Beth and Jeff McCord and their resources at yourenneagramcoach.com.

Free resources mentioned in this episode:

Enneagram Origins:
yourenneagramcoach.com/origins

Core Motivations PDF:
yourenneagramcoach.com/core-motivations

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, The Deeper by Design Podcast, Renovi Relational Therapy, marriage intensives, leadership care, and additional resources at trevorhislop.com.

The Deeper by Design Podcast is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify. New episodes release every Tuesday.