What happens when two people love each other, but keep getting stuck in the same painful pattern?

In this episode of The Deeper by Design Podcast, Dr. Trevor Hislop is joined by Kenny Sanderfer, licensed marriage and family therapist, certified Emotionally Focused Therapy trainer, supervisor, and therapist, founder of EFT Tennessee, and co-author with Dr. Sue Johnson of Created for Connection: The Hold Me Tight Guide for Christian Couples.

Together, Dr. Trevor and Kenny explore attachment science, emotionally focused therapy, emotional safety, relational cycles, faith, and the deep human longing to be seen, heard, known, and securely connected.

Kenny shares how his own journey through agriculture, missions, ministry, counseling, and his friendship and work with Dr. Sue Johnson shaped his passion for helping couples understand love not as a bargain, but as a bond. He also explains why attachment is more than a theory — it is a science of how our closest relationships shape the way we experience ourselves, others, and connection.

This conversation is deeply practical and hopeful. Dr. Trevor and Kenny talk about why couples get caught in negative cycles, why the other person is not the problem, and how the cycle itself often becomes the problem. They discuss emotional safety, protection, pursuit, withdrawal, repair, vulnerability, and the kind of conversations that help people move toward secure connection instead of deeper disconnection.

In this episode, we discuss:

• What Emotionally Focused Therapy is and why attachment science matters
• Why relational wounds are healed in relationships
• How emotional safety allows us to be more fully ourselves with the people we love
• Why couples often get stuck in the same painful conversations
• How protective patterns like pursuing, withdrawing, attacking, or shutting down develop
• Why “the person is not the problem — the cycle is the problem”
• How vulnerability can interrupt negative relational patterns
• Why repair, restoration, and reconciliation are deeply connected to God’s design for relationship
• How faith and attachment science help us understand connection with God, ourselves, and others
• Why it is never too early to strengthen the foundation of a relationship

A key takeaway from this episode:

Relational pain often forms in relationship — and healing also happens in relationship.

Kenny reminds us that we were created for connection, and that secure bonds help us face life, repair rupture, and move toward one another with greater courage, safety, and love.

Learn more about Kenny Sanderfer and his resources at kennethsanderfer.com.

Learn more about Dr. Trevor Hislop, The Deeper by Design Podcast, Renovi Relational Therapy, marriage intensives, leadership care, and additional resources at trevorhislop.com.

The Deeper by Design Podcast is available on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and Spotify.