What makes a book worth reading, remembering, and recommending?

Ben Putano, founder and CEO of Damn Gravity (and Rand’s and my publisher!), explains why books might be one of the most powerful marketing tools in a zero-click world.

We get into why great books need one memorable idea, how to engineer word of mouth, why romance authors might be better at positioning than business authors, and how to market a book by starting with your biggest fans instead of chasing the broadest possible audience.

Timestamps:

00:00 – Why books are powerful in a zero-click world

02:19 – What books can accomplish that other marketing assets can't

09:20 – Books that changed the way we think

17:00 – What business authors can learn from romance novels

19:29 – The dinner party test for communicating big ideas

23:06 – How to market a book before it's published

27:23 – Bestseller lists vs. actual influence

Connect with Ben Putano: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-putano/

Check out Damn Gravity Media: https://www.damngravity.com/

Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.co

Connect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | Threads

This episode was produced in partnership with Share Your Genius
www.shareyourgenius.com

I tossed out the idea that “today GEO is CRO,” and it gave Ross Hudgens actual goosebumps, because he’d just written about the same thing. Ross argues that if you can convince a user to buy, you can convince an LLM to recommend you.

Ross is the founder of Siege Media and author of Generative Engine Optimization, and we talked about what actually drives AI visibility. We discuss his research on more than 100 B2B websites, why comparison pages are associated with more AI referral traffic, and the limitations of AI attribution.

Timestamps:

00:00 — Is GEO just SEO with a new name?

07:20 — Research: Why comparison pages are winning in AI search

09:23 — Is GEO the new CRO?

16:03 — Measuring AI influence when nobody clicks

22:37 — How smaller brands can compete in AI search

Connect with Ross Hudgens: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rosshudgens/

Check out Siege Media: https://www.siegemedia.com

Get Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO: https://www.siegemedia.com/geo-book

Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.co

Connect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | Threads

This episode was produced in partnership with Share Your Genius
www.shareyourgenius.com

Rand Fishkin (my co-author!) is back on the show for a special episode about our new book, Zero Click Marketing.

We talk about what surprised us while recording the audiobook, and some of the Zero Click Marketing ideas that marketers have pushed back on the most.

We get especially fired up about attribution and post-purchase surveys and taking stronger positions in your content. Plus, learn how an expert like Rand is learning an entirely new kind of marketing as he builds his gaming company, Snack Bar Studios.

In this episode:

00:00 — Why useful advice requires taking a position

03:55 — AI, gatekeeping, and the freedom to build things yourself

08:26 — Why Rand is deliberately making his content weirder and more human

12:00 — What marketers understand — and resist — about Zero-Click Marketing

14:24 — The problem with “How did you hear about us?”

18:50 — A surprise cameo

20:12 — Why free-text attribution surveys don't solve the problem

25:28 — The question to ask customers instead

30:09 — The opportunity cost of asking a bad question

31:23 — How Rand learned to market an indie video game from scratch

38:37 — Please buy our book. Or don't. We're very good at this.

Buy our book, “Zero Click Marketing: How to Build Brands and Earn Customers on a Traffic-Starved Web,” at zeroclickmarketing.co/book or on Amazon!

Connect with Rand Fishkin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randfishkin/?isSelfProfile=false

Check out SparkToro: https://sparktoro.com/

Learn more: zeroclickmarketing.co

Connect with Amanda Natividad (@amandanat): LinkedIn | Substack | Instagram | Threads

This episode was produced in partnership with Share Your Genius
www.shareyourgenius.com