What happens when immersive, handmade weirdness becomes both art and scalable business—can technology amplify, rather than hollow out, human experience?

Join Kate O’Neill in this episode of The Tech Humanist Show as she sits down with Vince Kadlubek, co-founder and Chief Vision Officer of Meow Wolf—the groundbreaking immersive art collective. Dive into a deep and candid conversation about how Meow Wolf evolved from a DIY art community to a cultural phenomenon and scalable business that millions have experienced.

Topics Covered:

• Art, entertainment, and the challenge of categorizing Meow Wolf
• Storytelling in nonlinear, immersive environments
• Balancing creativity with business growth
• Technology’s role in enabling, not overpowering, human experience
• AI and the value of human-made art
• Taste, gatekeeping, and aesthetic choices
• Absurdity and transformation in art
• Hope, imagination, and facing the unknown

Connect with Vince Kadlubek
Meow Wolf
LinkedIn
Instagram

Episode Chapters:
00:04 Introduction to The Tech Humanist Show
00:18 Experience-first philosophy and the role of technology
02:09 Defining Meow Wolf: Art, entertainment, or something else?
03:03 Storytelling in immersive spaces
05:03 Nonlinear narratives and business models
10:05 World-building and universe connections across Meow Wolf locations
11:05 Navigating creative values and business scale
15:03 Shifting from CEO to Chief Vision Officer
19:23 Technology: Enhancing or diminishing meaningful human experiences?
22:19 The use and limits of AI in Meow Wolf art
27:38 Taste, aesthetics, and the role of hidden technology
31:16 Success, gatekeeping, and artistic responsibility
34:23 Absurdity, transformation, and challenging reality
37:32 Where hope endures in a moment of uncertainty
44:39 Credits and closing

What does it really mean to “count everyone”—and who decides how data shapes our democracy?
In this episode, we uncover the politics, complexities, and human stories behind the U.S. Census with Danah Boyd.

Topics Covered

• The evolving purpose and interpretation of the U.S. Census
• Data legitimacy and the social fabric around statistics
• Online manipulation and attempts to disrupt the 2020 Census
• The invisible infrastructure and complex processes of demographic data
• Geographies, census blocks, and mapping America
• Political battles over counting citizens vs. residents
• Jenga metaphor for U.S. agencies’ fragility
• AI’s dependency on civic data and community knowledge
• Concept collapse and the shifting meaning of “political”
• Hope in civil servants and the future of collective action

• Read danah boyd’s book, *Data Are Made, Not Found:*
  • https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/D/bo277581183.html
• Submit a public comment on the proposed 2030 Census residence rules by November 2nd: https://handsoffourcens.us/

• Website: https://www.danah.org
• Blog (Apophenia): https://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/
• Newsletter: https://made-not-found-by-danah-boyd.ghost.io/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danahboyd/
• Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/zephoria.bsky.social

Episode Chapters

00:04 Introduction, framing the census as more than just counting
01:14 Danah Boyd’s background and origin story
03:03 Founding Data & Society and joining the Commerce Department’s Data Advisory Council
04:40 Entering the Census Bureau and studying data legitimacy
06:21 Discovering toxic online forums targeting the 2020 census
09:20 Attending census meetings and understanding the phases of data-making
12:29 Census blocks, the creation of geographies, and mapping
17:39 The challenges of counting everyone and errors in data
20:33 The 2020 Presidential Memorandum and battles over who counts
25:51 New residence rules, Congress’s responsibility, and high-stakes policy debates
27:34 The Jenga metaphor for agency fragility and infrastructure
30:15 Census data and AI: foundational roles and vulnerabilities
33:01 Data legitimacy: social fabric, trust, and the politics of information
35:50 Vocabulary breakdown: “political” and the perception of civil servants
39:30 Hope in civil servants, future action, and collective responsibility
43:43 Appreciation for the census, the new book, and closing thoughts

What happens when we bring more humanity—and humor—into technology, leadership, and the systems that shape our world? In this episode, discover how we can do good better amidst complexity, disruption, and AI-driven change.

In this episode, Kate O’Neill welcomes author, comic, and advisor Jess Pettitt to explore how imperfect people and organizations can “do good better.” Together, they tackle topics from confronting bias in technology and leadership, to creating cultures where dissent—and learning from failure—are possible. Jess Pettitt shares high-stakes humor and vulnerable stories, unpacking why “good enough now” is sometimes vital and sometimes not enough.

Topics covered:

• Using humor to open up difficult conversations
• The limits of certainty and performance in leadership
• Organizational values and aligning intention with action
• The power of curiosity and the “Prepare, Recognize, Respond” framework
• Navigating positional power and fostering inclusive cultures
• Exposing neutrality and hidden power in technology and policy
• Redefining hope, agency, and responsibility in complex environments
• Generosity and actionable steps for failing together in the right direction

Connect with Jess Pettitt
Website


Episode Chapters:
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
01:19 Guest Introduction: Jess Pettitt and Body of Work
03:19 A Flamingo, Complexity, and Unexpected Human Moments
05:21 Humor’s Role in Difficult Conversations
09:11 Learning, Language, and Avoiding Performative Efforts
12:16 Organizational Values, Shared Goals, and Truth Telling
15:24 Discomfort with Complexity and the Realities of Safety
17:00 Making Room for Dissent and Practicing Curiosity
19:41 Feedback Loops and Real-Time Adjustment
24:08 AI Tools, Accuracy, and Personal Responsibility
26:44 Cultural and Conscious Response vs. Habitual Reaction
29:42 “Good Enough Now”—Progress, Stakes, and Ethics
33:24 Humanity, Everyday Generosity, and Self-Reflection
36:30 Balancing Ego and Humility in Driving Change
39:09 Power, Voice, and Cultural Structures in Organizations
45:25 Recognizing Politics and Power Hiding Behind “Neutrality”
51:59 Imagining a Hopeful, Human-Centered Future
57:32 Reclaiming Coexistence and Forward-Looking Hope
01:01:29 Closing Remarks and Takeaways