Rick Fitzgerald has spent decades making the kind of packaging people actually keep.

Rick grew up in the woods outside Charlottesville, Virginia, building his own little worlds out of whatever he could find. After VCU he fell into packaging by chance, at a global packaging company in Newport News. His three-person in-house team was concepting special editions for just about every major studio, label and brand you can think of. He ran that creative group for 15 years, then ran creative for another eight in LA.

We get into the stories behind some of that work: the 2013 Avengers Tesseract collector’s case (and the lawsuit that sent it back for retooling), Watch the Throne, and working directly with Brian Wilson on the SMiLE box set, which Rick calls the top memory of his career.

Also in this episode:

• A drawing from Rick’s childhood sketchbook that’s about to become a painting
• Kirk’s Transformers pitch to Hasbro (and the triple changers that showed up a year later)
• Picking illustration back up after years of fear, and how long it took to get there
• Why packaging is still underappreciated AND underutilized, from QR codes to product education
• Designing for the “third shelf” when AI agents are doing the shopping
• Unboxings, collectors, and balancing a big impact with a smaller footprint
• Rick’s shift toward fine art, and his push to get kids in Denver into art and design

Come for the special edition war stories, stay for Rick’s advice on keeping fear at bay and never stopping exploring.

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About Kirk and Andy.

Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com.

Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com.

Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics

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Michael Wilson of Copper Gate Design Company is back on the show, and this one's a masterclass in the business side of running a design studio. Kirk and Andy get Michael talking about why he puts his pricing right out in the open on his site, how to actually get comfortable charging what you're worth, and why the client who talks you down on price is almost always the one who brings 80% of the headaches.

Michael also opens up about his own hop water brand, Hazard's Hop Water, and the humbling lesson of not following his own advice — how niching too hard on the golf community nearly sank it, and what changed the moment they broadened the story to who they actually are. Plus the All the Bitter rebrand, and the counterintuitive call to pull "functional" off the front of the pack even though it was true.

In this episode:

• Why transparent pricing makes the money conversation easier (and keeps you honest)
• Fitting the scope to the client's budget — not shrinking your price to fit them
• Hunter vs. gatherer: two very different ways to win new work
• The "second lap" — ship it, get real market feedback, then redesign for what you learned
• Why your packaging will change in the first 3–5 years, and that's the point
• Don't chase the shiny object — anchor back to the strategy doc

Hosted by Kirk Visola (Mind the Font) and Andy Kurtts (Buttermilk Creative).

Send us Fan Mail

Support the show

About Kirk and Andy.

Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com.

Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com.

Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics

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Kirk and Andy sit down with marketing and brand strategist Joshua David for a conversation that starts with a joke about his very long bio and quickly goes somewhere much more honest.

Josh traces his path from working hotel front desks (including a stint in London that convinced him he was in the wrong industry) to community management, influencer marketing in New York, and eventually running social for Ebony, where he grew the platform from 200,000 to nearly a million organic followers before he turned 25. Along the way he crossed paths with a who's who of names, but the real story is what he learned about himself in those rooms.

Mostly, this is a candid talk about being real in spaces that reward performance. The guys get into authenticity versus code-switching, what it costs to be the only person of color in the room, why Josh leaves a job before they start to hate him, and the price of doing the one thing you don't want to do just to reach the next rung. There's a lot on the tension between caring too much and protecting your own peace, plus a hard look at how companies say they want you to shake the table right up until you actually do.

Funny, blunt, and occasionally uncomfortable in the best way. Come for the industry stories, stay for the truth-telling.

The Kirk and Kurtts Design Podcast. Kirk Visola, founder and creative director of Mind the Font, and Andy Kurtts, founder and creative director of Buttermilk Creative.

Send us Fan Mail

Support the show

About Kirk and Andy.

Kirk Visola is the Creative Director and Founder of MIND THE FONT™. He brings over 20 years of CPG experience to the packaging and branding design space, and understands how shelf aesthetics can make an impact for established and emerging brands. Check out their work http://www.mindthefont.com.

Andy Kurts is the Creative Director and Founder of Buttermilk Creative. He loves a good coffee in the morning and a good bourbon at night. When he’s not working on packaging design he’s running in the backyard with his family. Check out Buttermilk's work http://www.buttermilkcreative.com.

Music for Kirk & Kurtts intro & outro: Better by Super Fantastics

Show a little love. Share the podcast with those who may benefit. Or, send us a coffee:
Support the show