What does it take to keep going when the problem you're trying to solve is enormous, progress feels painfully slow, and the political tide can suddenly turn against you?

In this episode of Rooted: The Human Side of Sustainability Leadership, I’m joined by Tony Juniper CBE, one of the UK’s best-known environmental leaders and Chair of Natural England.

Tony has spent more than 40 years working at the forefront of environmental campaigning, nature conservation and climate policy. He has led organisations including Friends of the Earth, advised governments, businesses and charities, written more than a dozen books, and played a significant role in the campaign that led to the UK’s Climate Change Act.

But this conversation isn’t really about Tony’s CV or the technical detail of environmental policy. It’s about what it feels like to spend a career working on a problem that can sometimes seem almost impossibly large.

Tony talks about where his passion for nature and activism began, including the childhood experience that first showed him what it felt like to see somewhere he loved destroyed. He reflects on the fury that came with that experience, and how he learned to turn that emotion into action.

We talk about his proudest professional achievement: the campaign for the Climate Change Act, and what it felt like to see an idea developed through the Big Ask campaign become legislation that helped lock in long-term political commitment.

We also get into the harder parts of sustainability leadership. Tony talks candidly about the sadness and frustration he feels when environmental progress stalls, the rise of misinformation and climate backlash, and the current downturn in sustainability as a boardroom priority.

So how does he keep going?

Tony shares some fascinating reflections on the difference between effort and impact, arguing that the quality of our effort matters more than the number of hours we put in. He talks about the role of nature in restoring his energy and helping him think, and how walking, birdwatching and getting away from a computer can actually help him do better work.

We also explore one of the most important skills he has developed over four decades: learning to spot where he can make the biggest difference. Sometimes that opportunity is on the global stage or in Parliament. Sometimes, he says, it is in the “boring plumbing” inside an organisation that makes change stick.

And finally, we talk about what comes next. Tony explains why retirement isn’t really part of his thinking, why he sees time as something to use for useful things, and why none of the different stages of his career were actually planned.

This is a conversation about determination, purpose, energy, perspective and staying in the work for the long haul.

In this episode, we explore:

• Where Tony’s lifelong connection with nature and environmental activism came from

• The childhood experience that sparked his determination to protect the natural world

• His proudest achievement: the campaign that led to the UK Climate Change Act

• Why lasting change often depends on changing the “nuts and bolts” of how organisations work

• What it feels like when sustainability loses political and corporate momentum

• Dealing with frustration, sadness and misinformation without losing sight of the bigger goal

• Why shouting louder isn’t necessarily the answer when trying to persuade people

• How Tony identifies the opportunities where he can make the biggest difference

• Why the quality of your effort can matter more than the number of hours you work

• How walking and spending time in nature helps Tony think and recharge

• What a 40-year career in environmental leadership has taught him about persistence, impact and the future

Tony speaks in a personal capacity in this conversation.

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Thankyou so much for listening

Liv 💛

What happens when the thing that gives your career meaning also becomes the thing that burns you out?

For the first episode of Series 2 of Rooted: The Human Side of Sustainability Leadership, I’m doing something a little different. I’m turning the tables and handing over the interviewer’s seat to my good friend and former Lloyds colleague Matteo Deidda, Global Net Zero Lead at Tide.

This is a conversation about my own sustainability career, but really it’s a conversation about the human side of purpose-driven work.

I’ve interviewed lots of sustainability leaders about the roots of their careers, and Matteo starts by asking me a question I’ve asked many guests myself: what brought you into sustainability?

My answer surprised me a little. It wasn’t a lifelong love of nature or a childhood passion for environmental campaigning. When I look back, the thread running through my career is much more about problem-solving and a strong desire to make things better.

We talk about how that instinct took me from business improvement and programme management into corporate sustainability, and how Brexit was an unexpected turning point that sparked a much stronger sense of purpose. Finding sustainability gave me what felt like the biggest problem in the world to throw myself at. And I really did throw myself at it.

That sense of purpose was powerful, but it also came at a cost.

I talk openly about burnout, and about the realisation I’ve had since that this is not my problem to solve. I can contribute to something much bigger than me without carrying the whole thing on my shoulders. In some ways, learning to value small wins and individual impact has given me a much more sustainable way of approaching purpose-driven work.

We also talk about what happened after burnout, including the messy middle of career transition, changing professional identity and working out what came next. Matteo asks me what it was like to move from being “Liv from Lloyds” into something new, and how I’ve built a new chapter around coaching and helping sustainability leaders.

One of the things I’ve learned through that process is the importance of really knowing yourself. Understanding what motivates you, what drains you, what you need and where your own patterns can take you is just as important as knowing what you want to achieve.

And perhaps the biggest transition of all has been learning that meaningful impact doesn’t always have to mean doing something enormous. Sometimes a small change in one person’s life can be enough.

In this episode we discuss:
• The roots of my career in sustainability
• Why problem-solving, rather than a lifelong passion for nature, was the thread running through my career
• How Brexit became a turning point in my journey towards sustainability
• Purpose, passion and the drive to make a difference
• How a strong sense of purpose contributed to burnout
• Learning that you don’t have to solve the whole problem yourself
• The value of small wins and making a difference one person at a time
• Navigating career transition after burnout
• Losing and rebuilding your professional identity
• Moving from corporate sustainability leadership into coaching
• The importance of deep self-awareness in your career and leadership
• Finding a more sustainable way to do purposeful work
• What I’ve learned from helping other sustainability leaders navigate their own challenges

If you’re a sustainability professional or leader who cares deeply about the work but sometimes wonders whether you’re carrying too much of it, I hope there’s something here for you.

As always, I’d love to hear what resonates with you after listening.

If you enjoyed this episode, please hit subscribe, post a review, and share it with someone who might enjoy the conversation.

Thanks for listening!

From Liv 💛

Rooted: The Human Side of Sustainability Leadership is back for Series 2.
After a summer break, we're back with a new look, a fresh line-up of guests and some exciting changes to the podcast.

For Series 2, I'm broadening the scope of Rooted a little. Alongside sustainability leaders, I'll be bringing you conversations with experts from different fields who have valuable wisdom to share with the sustainability profession, as well as some very special guests.

We'll be kicking things off by turning the tables. In the first full episode of Series 2, I'll be the one answering the questions, as my good friend Matteo Deidda, Net Zero Lead at Tide, interviews me about my own story, career and experience of sustainability leadership.

I'm really excited about this series. I hope you enjoy it.

• Sustainability leadership
• The human side of sustainability
• Career stories and experiences in sustainability
• New perspectives for thoughtful sustainability professionals
• Leadership, personal stories and lessons from different fields
• Broadening the sustainability conversation
• Challenging yourself to be braver