When Alex Cantu trained new soccer referees, he told them to give every call about thirty seconds, because the game would show them whether they got it right. As a Chief Operating Officer, he leads the same way, watching how each decision moves through finance, HR and the next staff survey.

In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Alex, Chief Operating Officer of the Surge Institute, a national nonprofit that develops and supports leaders of color in education, to talk about staying calm under pressure, making big bets on imperfect information, and why a budget should tell a story.

Alex tells his story as three decisions. His parents in San Antonio, who never got to finish college, made his education the priority from preschool on. In high school he took up refereeing because it paid cash, and twenty-three years later he still works games on Sundays. He graduated into the tail end of the Great Recession hoping for a career like the one in the advertising drama Mad Men, and a first job in schools with a nonprofit turned him toward social impact.

Ron and Alex dig into why Alex says a COO communicates for a living, and why the role now calls for a generalist who can speak finance, law and culture without being a CPA or a lawyer. Alex sees keeping top talent through uncertainty as the sector's next challenge, and bets on skill building, with AI used to multiply what a lean team can do, not to shrink it.

For his Rondering, Alex challenges his fellow COOs and CFOs to keep one spreadsheet for the whole budget and make the rest narrative: the organization's legacy, what has to change this year, and the way forward. The numbers matter, but people follow narratives.

Chapters:

• (01:33) - Meeting at the Education Leaders of Color convening
• (03:27) - Three decisions, starting with his parents
• (05:25) - Refereeing soccer for twenty-three years
• (08:08) - A calm refereeing style and two breaths
• (11:32) - Missing calls and why the ball never lies
• (13:49) - From referee to chief operating officer
• (15:44) - Give every call thirty seconds
• (16:57) - Big bets on imperfect data
• (18:32) - Bridgespan and the rise of the generalist
• (23:23) - PowerPoint night: communicating for a living
• (26:57) - A first job in the Great Recession
• (28:53) - Advice to college Alex: be confident sooner
• (31:34) - Retaining top talent through uncertainty
• (35:44) - Alex's big bet: skill building and AI
• (37:20) - Ron's big bet: nonprofit mergers and acquisitions
• (42:37) - Reading together and celebrating what didn't work
• (48:03) - Alex's Rondering: one spreadsheet, the rest narrative
• (52:16) - Culture, the Spurs and the Knicks
• (55:05) - Investing in yourself as a leader

Alex Cantu on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexcantutx/
More about the Surge Institute: https://www.surgeinstitute.org/

Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapatalo

Ron Rapatalo's bestselling book Leverage: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473

Interested in writing or publishing? Visit: www.leveragepublishinggroup.com

Start your own podcast that matters: www.podcastsmatter.com

Check out other impact-driven podcasts: www.podcaststhatmatter.org

Leadership coach and former Teach For America Chief People Officer Laura Saldivar Luna spent forty years defining success as the next achievement. When everything started breaking down at once, she asked a harder question: what if the problem was how she was relating to her own life?

In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Laura, founder of Piñata Possible, to talk about what comes after you have checked every box and still have to ask what you actually want.

It started at six, when a first-place trophy from a citywide math competition left her wanting more of that feeling. A first-generation Georgetown graduate, she told anyone at Teach For America headquarters who would listen that she would launch the San Antonio region within five years. She did, and watched her first 100 corps members teach in the same schools she attended growing up. Years later, she told her mom she had done everything on the list. Her mom cried and said: whatever you want. Laura was scared, because she was not sure.

Ron and Laura dig into the piñata at the heart of her coaching: what feels like falling apart may be the opening to something bigger. They get candid about leaders who believe they serve people by burning themselves out, including an executive strategy session Laura showed up to with the flu, and Ron opens up about learning to forgive leaders who caused harm while burnt out themselves.

Tune in to hear why Laura believes another word for uncertainty is possibility.

Chapters:

• 🏆 05:47 Laura Saldivar Luna's first-grade math trophy and forty years of chasing achievement
• 🚪 07:57 Every box checked, then her mom's answer: whatever you want
• 🪅 15:45 Piñata Possible: when falling apart is really breaking open
• 🧭 33:06 Your body as a compass: a clear yes and a clear no
• 🏫 39:23 Declaring a five-year dream to launch Teach For America San Antonio
• 🤝 42:53 Relationship acumen: the leadership strength most workplace rubrics miss
• ⏸️ 52:42 Burning out is not serving: slow down to go faster
• 🕊️ 57:01 Forgiveness for leaders who caused harm while burnt out themselves
• 🌬️ 01:11:45 Laura's Rondering: another word for uncertainty is possibility

Links:

Website: https://www.pinatapossible.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-saldivar-luna
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pinatapossible/

If something in this conversation sparked your curiosity, Laura would love to meet you one on one. Book a virtual tea with her via the Calendly link here.

Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapatalo
Check Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473

Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.com
Publish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.org
Start a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.com
Go from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Education leader Lanira Murphy has had people write her off as too joyful to be serious. She leads network-wide academics anyway, with karaoke in the PD and a firm belief that Black education leaders should never have to lead as someone else.

In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Lanira Murphy, Senior Director of Academics and former California State Assembly candidate, to talk about joy as a leadership practice and why the field still needs a real plan for developing Black educators.

Her story starts with her mother in Shreveport, Louisiana, whose school was desegregated when she was in eleventh grade. The Black schools closed and the Black teachers were fired, a loss Lanira says education has never recovered from. Her mother made sure her children would graduate. Lanira became the first in her family to finish college, then nearly applied to graduate school without asking her professor for a recommendation. The professor would not allow it, and told her to always give people the opportunity to participate in her life.

Ron and Lanira dig into what her Assembly run, where she earned more than 60,000 votes against an incumbent, taught her about voice and motivation, and why adults in professional development deserve the same dynamic learning environments we want for kids. She is candid about the double bind Black women leaders face: too angry reads one way, too joyful reads as not serious. Her answer is to show up as herself anyway.

Tune in to hear Lanira's Rondering on the power people underestimate in themselves, and why she believes the most powerful movements in American history came from young people.

Chapters:

• 🏫 03:54 Lanira Murphy on how desegregation taught her mother what education is worth
• 🙌🏾 06:23 Always give people the opportunity to participate in your life
• 🗳️ 11:57 Why she walked away from politics and chose Teach For America
• 🌱 16:30 Pouring into Black education leaders after a lost generation
• 😄 19:30 Joyful leadership means making sure people feel seen
• 🎤 22:54 Adults don't play enough, and educators burn out without it
• ⚖️ 28:01 The double bind of leading as a joyful Black woman
• 🗣️ 34:43 What politics teaches school leaders about voice and the power of story
• ⚡ 47:19 Lanira's Rondering: Marianne Williamson on being powerful beyond measure

Links:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lanira-murphy-89899920

Lanira calls herself an open book: if she has a resource that's working, it's yours. Reach out to her on LinkedIn to keep the conversation going on joyful academic leadership and developing the next generation of Black education leaders.

Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapatalo
Check Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473

Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.com
Publish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.org
Start a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.com
Go from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Sarah Braver, COO and interim CEO of coLeague, embeds fractional People Leaders in mission-driven organizations. Her operating principle is that most workplace rules are made up, and you can build the one you actually want instead.

In this episode of RONderings, Ron sits down with Sarah, who works with the fractional talent firm founded by Lora Cover, to talk about ADHD at work and why psychological safety is the layer everything else sits on.

Sarah made up her own major at Furman, then spent her first job out of college color correcting photos for The Greenville News. An old professor called to ask what she was doing, and within weeks she was on Microsoft's campus in Redmond, in flip flops, because nobody had told her what to wear. She ran executive education for Fortune 50 companies out of London, wildly undiagnosed, learning the business from the back of the room while her actual job was making sure the binders showed up.

She and Ron compare notes on ADHD as a work style, including why crochet works for her brain and knitting does not. Sarah makes the case that most of what looks like a performance problem at work is an anxiety problem, and most anxiety is an information problem. Her employee hierarchy of needs puts safety at the base, and she defines it broadly: not just feeling able to raise a problem, but knowing your paycheck will be right.

Tune in to hear why Sarah believes mindset follows behavior, and what that means if you are trying to change how someone thinks.

Chapters:

🌮 04:05 Sarah Braver on Tijuana tacos and a life that never adds up

⛺ 10:19 The dad who invented fractional work and called it tent making

👟 13:07 Flip flops on Microsoft's campus and learning from the back of the room

🧩 26:37 Building three companies she no longer fit in

🧠 45:11 The designed distraction that lets an ADHD brain focus

⏳ 51:34 Inch wide and mile deep: why fractional work is interim work

🛡️ 55:09 The employee hierarchy of needs and why anxious people cannot work

📐 01:00:15 Most rules are made up, and mindset follows behavior

Links:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/sarahbraver
Website: coleaguepartners.com

Connect with Sarah Braver on LinkedIn or visit coLeague to learn more about embedding fractional People Leaders in mission-driven organizations, from chief people officers down through the full talent vertical. coLeague also offers a free Talent Diagnostic, a ten minute quiz for organizations trying to find the root cause of a people problem.

Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapatalo
Check Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473

Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.com
Publish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.org
Start a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.com
Go from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Executive coach and sabbatical guide Elandria Jackson Charles makes the case that a leader stepping away for three months is not a perk. It is an investment in organizational resilience.

In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Elandria, founder of Ayoka Partners, to talk about sabbatical care and what changes when rest is built into the structure instead of left to the individual.

Elandria grew up an only child outside Atlanta, raised by parents from Macon whose sacrifices never added up on paper. She was a junior Olympic champion at 12, running the 200 and the 400, and she was also throwing up before races. She quit track before college and lost the identity that came with it. Perfectionism carried her for years after that, until burnout and her second child arrived together. That is when she bet on herself and built Ayoka Partners. Ayoka is Yoruba for one who causes joy, and it was her original middle name.

Ron brings a sports analogy. When a paid athlete goes down, the organization rehabs them, because getting that player back on the court matters to the team. The social impact sector calls itself a team sport and structurally plays an individual one. Elandria asks how we perceive injury when there is no limp, when a leader is answering every email and going home a shell of herself. A sabbatical, she says, shows you your leadership bench fast, and funders have a role in making one possible.

Tune in to hear why Elandria says slowing down actually accelerates you, and what a yellow smiley face sticker in the shower drain has to do with joy.

Chapters:

🌿 02:40 Elandria Jackson Charles checked every box and still lost herself

🏃 07:40 A junior Olympic title at 12 and vomiting before races

🌅 24:27 Rest hygiene, and asking what fuel supports her dreams today

🪑 34:32 A sabbatical shows you who is actually on your leadership bench

🎾 36:34 Social impact says team sport and structurally plays an individual one

🩹 38:34 The injured leader with no limp, still answering every email

😊 40:32 Joy is micro: a smiley face sticker in the shower drain

⏸️ 44:39 The Rondering: pausing unlocks possibility, and slowing down accelerates you

Links:

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/elandriajacksoncharles

The Sabbatical Moment newsletter: sabbaticalmoment.myflodesk.com

Instagram: @restclarityjoy

Connect with Elandria Jackson Charles on LinkedIn to learn more about sabbatical care and her work supporting leaders, especially Black women leaders, to pause and come back with clarity. Her free newsletter, The Sabbatical Moment, is where she writes about the smaller sabbatical moments you can build into an ordinary Thursday.

Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapatalo
Check Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473

Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.com
Publish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.org
Start a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.com
Go from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org

Civic designer and movement strategist Dr. Kim McLear spent twenty years in the Coast Guard, and ten of them running a whistleblowing campaign built on carnival rhythm instead of the lone hero.

In this episode of Ronderings, Ron sits down with Kim, a systems engineer turned artist and movement builder, to talk about how she reimagined whistleblowing as a collective practice with rhythm and discipline.

Kim is a first generation American raised by Trinidad and Tobago immigrant parents who each served nearly thirty years in the military. She started school in Okinawa and finished high school in Germany, with 18 cities behind her before she could vote. She still has a scar on one finger from opening a reinforced steel door during a cyclone to get a better look at the trees dancing. Hours under the hood of cars with her father taught her that changing one part changes the whole system, which is the thread that runs to her PhD in systems engineering.

She picked the Coast Guard because it was the furthest thing from anything she knew, water included. When she spoke up, she refused the single hero version and built a survivor led coalition of thousands while continuing to serve as an officer and teach as a professor. She stayed disciplined about describing behavior rather than calling people names, and over a ten year arc that work helped surface a CNN investigation and new federal laws.

Tune in to hear why Kim calls despair a design feature of oppressive systems, and what practicing the future looks like when it starts with a paint bucket and a couple of friends.

Chapters:

🧵 02:39 Dr. Kim McLear: engineer, professor, and Coast Guard whistleblower

🌍 07:47 Dignity for all living systems, not just the human ones

🌀 11:55 Cyclones and car engines: the making of a systems engineer

⚓ 25:45 Why she joined the branch furthest from her comfort zone

🥁 30:18 Whistleblowing with carnival rhythm: no one whistles a symphony alone

📰 38:36 The ten year arc behind the CNN investigation and new federal laws

🚫 49:59 Never call people names: describe the behavior instead

🎷 01:01:42 Practice the future: grab a paint bucket and a couple of friends

🎭 01:04:11 Despair is a design feature of oppressive systems

Links:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justdrkim/

Connect with Dr. Kim McLear on LinkedIn to follow her work as a civic designer and movement strategist building education ecosystems for movement builders. Her practice draws on music and rhythm to help communities move from fragmentation toward coherence, which is the same practice she walks through on this episode.

Connect with Ron: www.linkedin.com/in/rapatalo
Check Out Ron's Book: www.amazon.com/dp/1613431473

Leverage Publishing Group: www.leveragepublishinggroup.com
Publish a Book That Matters: http://booksthatmatter.org
Start a Podcast That Matters: http://podcastsmatter.com
Go from Expert to Thought Leader: http://geniusdiscovery.org