This episode seeks to explain what the grey zone is. It includes a warning from General Sir Nick Carter, the head of the UK’s armed forces, and Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, about the danger of ignoring attacks in this murky space, while Lieutenant General Graeme Lamb, a former director of UK special forces, warns: “We’re being boiled like a frog!”

Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes then travels to Salisbury with the widow of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko to visit the site of one of the most high profile grey zone attacks – the poisoning of another ex-Russian agent, Sergei Skripal, and his daughter Yulia.

Lord Mark Sedwill, a former national security adviser, talks about how he led the UK’s response to nerve agent poisoning and the fake news that followed.

Finally, Eliot Higgins, founder of the investigative website Bellingcat, describes how he and his team revealed the true identities of the Russian military intelligence officers named by the UK as prime suspects in the attempted assassination. Russia denies involvement.

Interviews:

General Sir Nick Carter, chief of the defence staff

Ben Wallace, defence secretary

Lord Mark Sedwill, former UK national security adviser, former cabinet secretary

Lieutenant General (retired) Graeme Lamb, former director of UK special forces

Marina Litvinenko, widow of former Russian spy Alexander Litvinenko

Eliot Higgins, founder of the investigative website Bellingcat

Colonel Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, former commanding officer of the UK’s Joint, Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment

Credits:

Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes

Edited and produced by Chris Scott

Production support from Sophia McBride and Victoria Seabrook

Additional voices provided by Cayetano Delgado

The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris

This episode explores a battle between truth and lies that’s threatening democracies around the world. It looks at how information is used as a weapon, not just by hostile foreign states, seeking to divide and weaken rival nations, but also by domestic politicians and other actors.

Sky News journalist Deborah Haynes speaks to the author of a book on the history of disinformation, Professor Thomas Rid , who talks about fake news during the Cold War and warns about the risk of political violence today when people can no longer agree on facts.

It’s a warning that played out on the streets of Washington DC in January when supporters of Donald Trump stormed the US Capitol building, spurred on by a false belief that Joe Biden had stolen his way to victory in the 2020 presidential election.

Deborah also visits one of the UK’s best-known fighters of suspected Russian and Chinese fake news, who battles online trolls from his remote cottage in Scotland. And if you think that sounds strange, remember, in the grey zone, the frontline is everywhere!

Interviews:

Thomas Rid, professor of strategic studies at Johns Hopkins University, author of Active Measures – the secret history of disinformation and political warfare

Linas Linkevicius, foreign minister of Lithuania until December 2020

Keir Giles, author of a handbook on Russian information warfare for NATO, senior consulting fellow at Chatham House

Daniel Jones, founder and president of Advance Democracy

Ben Nimmo, head of investigations at Graphika

Ben Wallace, United Kingdom’s defence secretary

Kate Jones, director of Oxford University’s diplomatic studies programme.

Credits:

Written and narrated by Deborah Haynes

Edited and produced by Chris Scott

Production support from Sophia McBride and Victoria Seabrook

Additional voices provided by Cayetano Delgado

The head of Sky News Radio is Dave Terris