As measles cases rise across the United States, controversial vaccine policies and international research practices are raising urgent questions about public health leadership, scientific integrity, and medical ethics.

In this episode of We Want Them Infected, Dr. Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent examine the latest reported measles death, the opening of a new vaccine injury clinic at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), and the controversial hepatitis B vaccine trial moving forward in Guinea-Bissau.

The conversation also explores allegations surrounding vaccine research, the influence of political leadership on public health institutions, and a reported plague-related laboratory death in Russia. Wendy draws on her extensive knowledge of plague and biological weapons history to separate legitimate public health concerns from speculation.

Finally, the hosts discuss rising COVID-19 cases in the United Kingdom and the ongoing consequences of policies that prioritize natural infection over vaccination.

• Measles Outbreaks and Preventable Deaths: Jonathan and Wendy discuss a newly reported measles-related death in Pennsylvania, rising case counts, hospitalizations, and the consequences of declining vaccination coverage.

• NIH's New Vaccine Injury Clinic: The hosts react to statements from Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Jay Bhattacharya, Dr. Oz, and Erica Schwartz, questioning whether the initiative acknowledges decades of existing vaccine safety research.

• Public Health Leadership Under Scrutiny: A discussion of scientific credibility, institutional accountability, and criticism of NIH leadership, including concerns raised by researchers about workplace culture and scientific integrity.

• The Guinea-Bissau Hepatitis B Trial: Jonathan and Wendy examine the ethical implications of a proposed study involving 14,000 infants, with particular attention to withholding the hepatitis B birth dose from some participants.

• Research Transparency and Accountability: The hosts discuss allegations of unreported primary outcomes in previous vaccine studies and the importance of transparency in clinical research.

• Plague in Russia: Separating Fact From Fear: Wendy explains the reported laboratory death in Irkutsk, regional differences in plague strains, historical Soviet biological weapons programs, and why the incident does not establish that an engineered pathogen was involved.

• COVID-19 Is Still Circulating: The episode closes with a discussion of increasing COVID-19 cases in the United Kingdom, emerging variants, and concerns about access to vaccination.

The episode underscores the importance of evidence-based public health policy, ethical clinical research, and accountability among scientific leaders.

Jonathan and Wendy argue that established vaccine research should not be disregarded in the pursuit of politically motivated narratives. They also emphasize that protecting vulnerable populations, particularly children, must remain central to public health decision-making.

From measles outbreaks to international vaccine trials and infectious disease surveillance, this conversation examines what happens when scientific evidence, institutional trust, and public health priorities collide.

Listen to We Want Them Infected for an examination of the latest public health controversies and the decisions shaping infectious disease prevention.

Disclaimer: This podcast features commentary, analysis, and opinions from its hosts. Statements concerning developing news and research reflect information discussed at the time of recording. This content is intended for informational purposes and does not replace professional medical advice.

Jonathan Howard and Wendy Orent return for a wide-ranging conversation about the state of public health, vaccine policy, and the consequences of ideas they've been documenting since the early days of We Want Them Infected.

They begin with reports of additional measles deaths and the continued spread of the disease among under-vaccinated communities. From there, Jonathan and Wendy examine Andrew Wakefield's appearance at the Children's Health Defense Summit, RFK Jr.'s comments about vaccines, AI, and chemtrails, and growing tensions within the MAHA movement.

The conversation also turns back to COVID. Jonathan highlights research on COVID vaccination in young children and repeat infections, while the pair revisit the BMJ's pandemic-era coverage—including arguments that encouraged childhood infection—and contrast it with more recent scrutiny of vaccine safety monitoring.

They also discuss Jay Bhattacharya's leadership at the NIH, his reported resistance to efforts to politicize NIH grant funding, his addition to the NIH "Hall of Heroes," and his previous support for allowing lower-risk populations to face COVID infection.

Finally, Jonathan and Wendy examine FDA leadership, changing childhood vaccine policy, and reports of major staffing losses and program cuts at the CDC.

The episode closes where it began: with measles once again causing preventable illness and death—and the unsettling realization that many of the public-health consequences Jonathan and Wendy warned about are no longer hypothetical.

• New measles deaths and the consequences of declining vaccination

• Andrew Wakefield and the Children's Health Defense Summit

• RFK Jr.'s comments on vaccines, AI, and "medical tyranny"

• Chemtrails and conspiracy theories entering public-health discussions

• Growing divisions within the MAHA movement

• Corporate influence and the MAHA Summit

• Research on repeated COVID infections and chronic health conditions

• Evidence on COVID vaccination and severe disease in young children

• Vaccine-associated myocarditis and the risk-benefit discussion

• The BMJ's pandemic-era arguments about childhood COVID infection

• Jay Bhattacharya, NIH funding, and Harvard

• The NIH "Hall of Heroes"

• The Great Barrington Declaration and infection-based pandemic strategies

• FDA leadership and questions surrounding the MMR vaccine

• Staffing losses and program cuts at the CDC

• Why Jonathan and Wendy remain concerned about the return of vaccine-preventable diseases