One year on from when Pope Leo became head of the Catholic church and he remains a bit of an enigma. Is he a Conservative or Liberal? What did we learn from his clash with Donald Trump? Damian Thompson is joined by editor of The Pillar Ed Condon and two Spectator favourites – Freddy Gray and Mary Wakefield.

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In 2009 Pope Benedict XVI upset liberals by creating the Ordinariates, new self-governing structures for ex-Anglicans who wanted to preserve their ‘patrimony’ in their worship and evangelisation. Until now, many bishops in the English-speaking world have done their best to marginalise the Ordinariates, despite – or perhaps because of – the dynamism of their clergy. But Pope Leo has now affirmed the Ordinariates as a permanent feature of the church. Could Pope Benedict’s bold initiative soon be working as he intended? In this episode of Holy Smoke, Damian Thompson talks to two leading Ordinariate priests, Fathers Ed Tomlinson and Benedict Kiely. Don’t miss this unusually frank discussion.

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Donald Trump’s latest clash with the Pope has stunned even the more hardened of America-watchers. According to the President of the United States Chicago-born Pope Leo XIV, the spiritual leader of 1.3 billion people, is 'WEAK on crime and terrible on foreign policy.' He also claimed that, 'If I wasn’t in the White House, Leo wouldn’t be in the Vatican.' Is the war in Iran the only reason the Pope and the President have clashed? And what does it tell us about religious relations in the US today?

In a special podcast collaboration, the host of Holy Smoke Damian Thompson and the host of Americano Freddy Gray discuss the dispute.

Produced by Patrick Gibbons and Natasha Feroze.

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