Join Maggie and Jared in a conversation with Taylor Van Zyl, a professional carriage driver, horse trainer and trader, rodeo cowgirl and all-round horsewoman in Arizona. She travels up and down the West with eight Percherons, doing public and private events and rodeos. She tells us stories of flipping Gypsy Vanners, taking her carriage business to Hawaii, training all her horses to be ridden by a person wearing a giant inflatable unicorn suit, and she dispels rumors about Scotch shoes. Her thoughts on the differences between riding and driving, and how to create a horse that can go anywhere and do anything, are especially interesting.

Check out Ride and Ridden Wine, which featured her on a wine bottle, at https://rideandridden.com.

Anna Peck works with oxen in northern New York. She was kind enough to stay late in her office at work to record our interview. Anna has a unique story: raised by her sister, she started showing cattle and then oxen in high school on the Vermont-New York state line and fell in love with it, piecing together advice from various mentors to teach herself to train oxen. Lately, she prefers driving single oxen and using the three-pad ox collar developed in Germany over the bow yoke common in the U.S. She offers advice on animal training and cattle breeds suited for oxen, as well as thoughts on raising a family alongside draft animals. Anna was one of many presenters at the 2024 Draft Animal Power Field Days in Montgomery, NY September 27–29, where she explained the 3-pad collar system and worked her single oxen Sam and Otis in the woods.

Claus Kropp has a the kind of job you only get it if you make it for yourself. He works as the founding director of the Lauresham Open-Air Laboratory at UNESCO Lorsch, a medieval abbey site in Germany. There, they have a full-scale model of a medieval village, filled with historically accurate buildings and animals. Claus works the land with his oxen and practices "experimental archaeology," which you will hear explained in the episode. He also runs the non-profit, overseeing the day-to-day of a busy public facing historical venue and research institution, and organizing the Center for Draft Cattle Research and Organization to connect draft cattle users all around the world. He tells us working with oxen puts him in flow, and you can hear his deep love for these animals -- and passion for draft cattle generally -- shine through our interview. His organization is also the home of the World Draft Cattle Symposium, and we talked shortly after a successful Symposium in spring 2024.